Dodge neon 2.0/ 3 speed Auto/ Carry

[Little Digger]

I have had this truck for 4 years and love it. but have wanted more power. A set of Mattracks found a home here the first year I had the truck. Boy I need more power. Well after this last winter I had to do something. Here in Utah I ride the mountain roads and trails, 7,000 ft + elevation, killer on the little 660 engine. Then add tracks in the winter and good luck any thing over 10 mph. I am a rock crawler [JEEPS] and have seen a few buggys with transaxle mid engines. So I looked for a low profile engine. A transmission shop had a 95 neon that the owner did not pay the repair bill. So for 200 bucks I had a start for the carry. Well I gutted the truck, thought I killed it this time! I mounted the engine as far to the rear as I thought driveline angles would allow. Two 85 CJ5s gave the front axles, [junk in the back yard]. The rear axle was turned pinon forward flipped over [upside down] axle tubes cut and the center moved to the left side, axle tubes turned to aline the inner cs. Diff was welded and new seals, joints in place. The carry rear leaves were set inboard the frame and axle mounted. The rear drive line was made from the neon drive axle and the CJ front drive line, both were cut. The drive axle slid into the CJ tube and welded. The CJ rear axle park brake guts fit the front brake backing plates and with a little fab the neon cables used to tie into the stock brake handle. The rear end made me lose a lot of sleep. The front axle was alot less work, axle was flipped over [upside down] and the inner cs cut and turned then welded. Front CJ5 leaves were used. Seven leaves, some cut to give the right ride. The front drive line was made from the neon cv drive cup and the CJ rear axle pinon yoke, some cutting and welding, then the CJ rear drive line was used, [stock]. The transaxle diff was then welded. Front steering is full hydro, single ended ram/ orbital valve, using the neon steering pump. The rear steer is also single ended ram/ hand valve, the carry transfercase shifter was used to locate the valve behind the cab using the stock cable. Next up wheels @ tires, some 7"x16" cross bar tires on black spoke wheels. And the truck lives !! I have 200 hard miles on it now. POWER more than it needs, gearing is a little low, 2500 rpm @ 18 mph, kinda slow on the main gravel road but on the narrow two track roads and trails it is right. This thing WILL clime a tree at idle !!! The ac works so much better, it has the power to use it for more than an engine brake going down hill !! And the steering what can i say POWER !! and the rear steer, too cool It will go AROUND trees and rocks, and the ability to go side ways, well who new ya needed it, well ya do! All said and done [more to do like all projects]it has been worth it. 3 months work [weekends and after work] $ 2,000.00 in parts, five wheels and tires included. Not bad for this kind of up grade. Well what ya think ???? Keep On Truckin Boys!!!

[Little Digger]

These are cellphone pix, hope they work.

[Little Digger]

Here are some more.

[erixun]

One word..... AWESOME! I will have to come down and look you up, or get you to go wheelin some time!!!! Nice Post, and nice job. I would love to see your truck in person! :pop::pop: Action shots.....

[Little Digger]

Thanks, its good to see some one in Utah has and uses these truck's. Keep in mind I built the truck mostly from things around my yard. The neon, two CJs, an old grader, and the old scrap pile of steel. And not much for tools, o ya the dirt floor shed is a lot of fun too! It turned out better than I thought it would. Like i said I thought I killed it at the start. Hell ya lets get together and go for a ride. [ Just remember I am a slow poke till I get some taller gears! ].

[TRAX and HORNS]

I just came through Utah couple of weeks ago. Was up at Yellowstone and Glacier. Next time I'll take a mini truck. Still a ton of snow. Couldnt believe it.

[Little Digger]

Ya we got a lot of snow this year too. Most of it has melted. The mountain roads were fun this spring, I had to hurry to finish my truck to get up there. I love the high country in spring and fall. I love Yellowstone too, I need to go see it soon.

[fupabox]

excellent job...love it:)

[greg0187]

Sweet! Thats quite an accomplishment! The payoff is worth it in the end. Are you using the stock radiator/location?

I have 3.08 gears and mine will crawl anything I point it at, and it has good top end.

Congrats!
-Greg

[Little Digger]

greg Yes, the stock radiator is working out for me, there is a temp sensor in the radiator for the fan. The neon computer has the wires for the fan too, but I didn't use them. It is low geared. [ trans. 1.1 transaxle 2.89 axle 4.27 tire diam. 30" ] 17.48 mph @ 2500 rpm. I am going to change to 3.08s But I need to change out the diff. What rpm / speed are you with 3.08s ? I have looked at your build, looks good !! wish I had the funds to link mine. How do you like your lockers? Have you got it weighed yet? I am at 2,058 lbs / spare tire and tools. It's almost balanced front to rear, the front is 60 lbs over. What rate are your coilovers ? Just got back from a 60 mile ride, and love the power, the steep grades are no problem at all, its kinda fun to punch it and hall the mail up the mountain. O and thanks, your build kept me going hard to finish mine.

[greg0187]

Yeah. Mine is a blast. The gearing is low but for me its not too low. The shift points in mine are stiff, especiallly from 1 to 2nd, so it would be nice to have a CVT or something.



What rpm / speed are you with 3.08s?

I haven't checked. I actually have 3.31s. I was paced at speed of about 30mph @3500-4000rpm. I will have to check to get a more official number with my gps.



How do you like your lockers?

The lockers are great! Im actually really impressed. I can't tell they are even in there. However I do not have my transaxle diff welded yet so it may be a different story when thats done.



Have you got it weighed yet?

Nope.



What rate are your coilovers ?

They are 8" travel with 16" springs. Front is 200lbs and rear are 125lbs.

[Little Digger]

greg Thats funny, my 2nd to 3rd shift makes ya glad for the little head rest's that GARD the back window. lol

[Little Digger]

More pix. 41's on the Jeep

[greg0187]

You get some impressive articulation with those leafs. Im impressed!

[Little Digger]

Thank's Greg, the front leaves have been a work in progress for week's, I just haven't been happy with the ride, changing spring length's. A torque arm had to be made. you know the problem's of a lite spring pack and spring over axles. Finding the right shock is the problem now. All the ones that have the right travel are just to stiff. I am thinking of somehow inboarding them, still thinking on that one. How are you coming with your truck? I have to get some armor going on before I get into trouble. Thinking exocage, but i am not good bending pipe.

[Ironraven]

Very very cool! I wish I had your fabbing skills. Hell I wish I had your scrounging skills! Good work man, very inspirational :cool:

[Stuff99]

that is so freaking cool!

[Little Digger]

Well I have been changing the front spring's around and the shock location's, and I think I have got the truck to ride as good as it is going to get on leave's. The big change I made was in mounting the front shock's. This is going to sound strange but I mounted the shock's in the center of the axle on top of the tork arm. It's about 5 inches high from center line, then at about a 45 degree angle to the strut tower's under the seat's. My thinking was to let the axles move with out restriction but still control body movement. By placing the mounting point so high on the axle, when one end of the axle drops into a hole the shock's try to push up on that side of the body and pull down on the other side. On the dip's and bump's that both end's of the axle moves, the shock's work to keep the body from bouncing. I know it sound's dumb but it really does work. The big rock's and holes that used to bounce ya off the seat aren't that bad now, I haven't lost any articulation and the total amount of axle movement is still controlled. I live about 10 miles from West Mountain and use it for my test area when torture testing my dumb idea's. It's hot, steep, and lot's of rock !! This thing will clime, the pix just don't show how steep this rock face is. I slid down when I got out to take pictures and had a hell of a time getting back in!, then just put it in drive and touched the gas and up we go. I got to say there are a lot of times I love the low low gear's !!! Well now on to the rear axle, it rides ok but now I think I can do better, so more changes coming. If ya look at the pix close you can see i wasn't holding the camera level, Look at the lake and weed's, it is steeper than it look's.

[Little Digger]

We got our first snow in the high country last week and last Sunday I got to try out the truck in the snow. It was cold in the morning around 26, at 8600 feet elevation. There was about 12" of snow in places. The 2nd day of the rifle Elk hunt was going and the roads and trails were beat to death by hunters. The truck did so good in the ice and snow, deep ruts from trucks didn't bother the truck at all. Deep mud holes that most trucks and wheelers went around were just a walk in the park too. I found a few trails that were untouched so I got to play in snow for the first time. The tires did just grate, just what I thought they would do, and in the deep mud they never seem to spin unless I wanted them too. LOL You should see the looks people have when I used the front and rear steer to go off the side of the road to let trucks pass, it is so cool to be able to get in and out of tight spots. And the guys on the side by sides freezing staring at me in my tee shirt, HA HA. The truck has about 1000 miles of dirt roads on it now, the only problem I have had with it is the fuel pump will get hot after 5 hours driving on a hot day and vapor lock, a problem I will fix this winter. The truck does so much better with the weight balanced front to rear, it seems to do any thing I ask of it with vary little effort, and no problems. I still need skid plates, engine cover and a good roll bar, {It sometimes feels like it will go over backwards on the steep climes]. I am vary happy with how it has turned out, I just wish it had taller gears, but at times the low low gears are nice too !!

[Ironraven]

Awesome! Sounds like a good time, did you get any Elk?:cool:

[greg0187]

Nice! although Im enjoying the fall weather and not ready for snow at all!

[Ironraven]

Yeah, me either. I still need to finish my front end so I my plow mount is sturdy... maybe this weekend...

[Little Digger]

I wasn't hunting just out to play in the first snow of the year. I am trying to find a way to get the track's on the jeep axles, it's going to require a machine shop and more money than my allowance the wifey gives me!

[Little Digger]

Ok, I haven't updated this thread for a while. I moved the fuel pump to the inside of the fuel tank, I used the pump from the Neon. It was just the right size to fit in the sending unit flange. The pump is a lot quieter now, and I think it will end the heating problem it was having. I am also going to change the axle gearing, Going from 4.27 to 2.73 gears. It will add about 10 MPH,[ @ 2,500 RPM/ 27.3 MPH] it's not going to haul the mail but it will help with fuel mileage and still have low gearing. I am going to install a rear steer gauge, { thanks for your thoughts Spaner & Greg !! } It will go good with the Trans temp and Hyd oil temp gauges i am going to install. I have also got a lock right locker for the front axle, I have wanted a locker for the front from the first year I got the truck. If it's like my Jeep it will make a big difference. I am going to wait till after my son gets home on leave, He has been on a boat for 10 months [ USMC ] and wanted to go for a ride in the mountains when he gets here. So far the truck has been vary reliable and has done every thing I wanted it to do. Some day I will get some video of the truck doing its thing, till then here's a snow pix. White River @ about 7,000 ft. Dragging axles in the white stuff. :)

[Acerguy]

I love this thread. And I'm still laughing about this sentence in your first post! :D


.....and the rear steer, too cool It will go AROUND trees and rocks, and the ability to go side ways, well who new ya needed it, well ya do!

[Little Digger]

Thanks Acerguy, The rear steer makes me chuckle EVERY time I use it!! Going sideways down the road is just wrong!!!! :eek:

[greg0187]

Congrats on finding the gears. That 10mph is going to make a huge difference!

I still need to figure out what my speed/rpm is. Im a little worried about the skid steer tires and going fast with them. Their max speed is only 5mph and they get flat spots really bad! As soon as my friend gets his CJ going again I am going to mount them to it as a test to see if thats where most of my drivability problems are coming from. If it is then its Allied beadlocks and super swampers!

What kind of tires are you running? Do you like them?

Where did you source the gears from? new? used?

[Little Digger]

Greg; The tires are BKT 7/ 16. 4 ply, for the front of a small tractor. They get flat spots too, and my biggest problem is they lose air setting. I had to put tubes in them. I haven't run them on the road much but they seem to be ok. If I had it to do over I would get the swamper Irock, I have them on my Jeep, 41/14.50/15. They are only a 4 ply sidewall. So maybe the TSL, but I don't think they are a radial. The skidsteer tires have a vary high load rating. Bullet proof YES, but not a vary good ride on rock and I think a vary hard rubber compound. My truck has good manners on the road, as far as turning, the full hydo steering is a little different, but my max speed has only been about 30 MPH lol. My Jeep is kind the same way, the full hydo steer is different on the road, I have the same PSC double ended ram. The lockers can have some vary bad manners on asphalt, but I don't have experience with the Lock Right's yet. The gears are used, $100.00 a set. {Off-Road Motorsports 800-686-3478 Scott] he said he had more set's too. I wasn't able to find anything new for that gear ratio. I had to change the carrier's, there is a change at 3.77 to 3.55 so that cost a little more.

[Little Digger]

Well it's been a while. I haven't updated this thread. I have been driving the wheels off this truck. I got the 2.73 gears in the axles and the Lockright locker in the front axle. The taller gears helped, its still not a race car but on the dirt mountain roads its ok. I love the locker in the front axle. It is quiet and not even noticeable at all. I have put thousands of miles on the truck and have not had any problems. Took it on the hunts this year and had a blast. I still want to change the leaf springs. I am thinking a 3 link with coils and track bar. Right now I am working on putting the track's on.:pop:

[Acerguy]

Nice to hear an update!

[spaner]

Bout time..:)

What gismo are you and greg using for the hydo steering? At the wheel, or on the floor; I've seen on greg's.
My dad wants to know, cu'z he wants to put the power guts from a neon onto his gogo-gadget tractor.
Something I can order off the net for him?

[Little Digger]

spaner Go to PSC Motor sports click full hydraulic steering; left side of screen click steering valves. you can find orbital valves on most tractors and construction equipment. the orbital valve I used came from a John Deer grader. I was able to use the Neon steering pump but needed to make a larger oil tank. I also used a trans cooler in the return line to keep temps down. On my Jeep with the PSC full hyd steering I installed a oil filter in the return line. I was able to find every thing needed for the carry used so not much money needed to get it going. The oil cooler is a must have, the oil will get hot !! So far the front and rear steering have worked good with NO problems.;) Let me know if I can help in any way.

[Little Digger]

Spaner; the first pix are the orbital valve in the Carry mounted under the floor, it is a vary tight fit. The next pix is the orbital valve in the Jeep. The last one is the Carry showing the valve under the floor. The Sorry crappy phone pix:frustration: 1139811399

[spaner]

Thanks, I pass on the info and see what he wants to do..:)

[greg0187]

Good to hear its treating you well. Same here with the lock-right. Makes no noise whatsoever.

I got my steering valve from PSC as well. Just wish the darn things weren't so expensive.

Spaner, If your dad goes this route do a lot of research on hydraulic steering design before you buy anything. Use the calculators for volume/flow etc. Don't want to end up with extemely low or high amount of turns lock to lock. :D

[spaner]

Thanks guys,
Yea, he knows a lot about hydo stuff, he's always messing with it, but never steering. He said princess auto had some kind of lever action valve he was going to use, and I tool him that I was pretty sure that there was a specific valve designed for hydro steering. Saw the calc dividing volume as well, with the rack, probly the 160cc, ($250 seems a lot to him) but after all that he said that he knew where there was an old forklift parked for parts, he may just pull that rear orbital.
He works at his own pace, so I'll keep you posted, he'll probly try to get that valve on a trade...:o

[Little Digger]

I was amazed at all the different orbital valves. And ya they are pricy. The hand valve for the rear steer works vary good. on some trails I leave the front steering at center and use the rear steer: feels like a boat :D The rear steer is :cool:

[Little Digger]

Ok I have been thinking to much :frustration:. I have been looking at the tracks and just don't think the Mattracks are going to ever do what I want soooooo:eek:. I have been looking at all the tracks on the web and I think I have a plan. I will try to make this a low buck build but a lot of this stuff I don't have around the yard. I found 4 tracks for $550 and started this build:rolleyes:. I found somewhere snow cat's need to be around .5 psi to stay on top of the snow. Looking at the Mattracks on the carry; foot print, 26" x 11" x 4 = 1,072 sq in. gvw with track's 2,400 lbs. 2,400 lbs / 1,072sq in = 2.23 psi. Ya that's not going to float much. so here's the plan, with the snowmobile tracks ; foot print 47" x 15" x 4 = 2,820 sq in. 2400 lbs / 2,820 sq in = 0.85 psi. I think I did that right. Anyway I plan to build something like the old una track, and the American truck track. I am going with the sprocket drive and the caster wheels under the drum to carry the weight like the Una track, but will go with slider's [ hifax ] and wheel caster's, kinda like the American Truck track. This is going to take some time to build so :pop:stay tuned. O ya any thoughts you all might have let's hear it !! 11590115911159211593

[greg0187]

That sounds like a fun project! Wish I could help! Might need to start a new thread for this.