American KTA Clarification

[Mini Truck Exporter]

All,

I caught a couple of posts which seem to be leading to a misunderstanding about the KTA and its relationship to Kevin O'Neil who runs this forum.

While we have Kevin's support, he did not start the KTA push nor did he volunteer for anything other than to support efforts to better our industry. Kevin has also been kind enough to create a section so that we may use the forum as a speaking podium. I couldn't agree more that the forum is a great resource for which to spread the word and I appreciate Kevin providing such an opportunity.

Now about the KTA.

I knew before I started this that trying to bring hundreds if not thousands of people together would not be an easy task. I also knew that there would be many forum members who just simply would not get it. Be that as it may, I believe there are enough of us to forge ahead.

If you are reading this post and wish to be a part of the effort to organize our industry, then please contact me.

Here are my views and objectives for the KTA.

1. Forge close working relationships with those agencies involved in regulatory decisions.

2. Establish strategic relationships with other stakeholders of this commodity, foreign and domestic.

3. Form an Association Board.

I expect the board to be in place by weeks end and will continue to update the community as to our efforts through this forum. The above items are a short rendition of our long term goals. As we move forward we will share more details.

For those still watching and waiting, please be patient as we work to get things rolling.

I appreciate all those who have expressed their interest in assisting in many ways. Please be patient as we get the foundation in place and we will be in touch.

Thank you,

American Kei Truck Association

[bullitt4248]

Well in the spirit of openness -

So far Mr.Jeff Barnett (jeffb@consumerimports.com)- is proposing a "Association" with a "Board" of his choosing - seated "Board Members" who are "Dealers" he choses.

But "Members" can be anyone who is willing to put forth "Money" to support his Ideas of where this "Association" devotes its time and money!

Sounds a bit "Elitist" to me Jeff. I offer to help - you feel I am trying to "Cut in on your action" - so you throw out a rule that would exclude others and myself from serving on the "Board."

Your actions won't change mine, but your agenda seems to get a little clearer with every post.

I am all for creating a "KTA" - but I just think your exclusion of the "End User" - "Owners and future owners" - from a voice on the "Board of KTA" is wrong.

More should have been done before now to support buyers and resellers. To many people are "Uninformed" as to true rules and regulations.

I am not pointing fingers but - why haven't those "Importers" who are and have been making nice profits been not taking actions to protect the "Resellers Investments?"

If I had the resources - I could have a letter Campaign started and in the mail - across this Country to every Senator and Congress Person in a space of three weeks. Its not that hard !

People who want to see this whole issue solved don't want to buy stickers and T-shirts (Although they are great for supporting Members) -

Those who have mortgaged their property - don't want to spend thousands creating a new "Importer Dealers Club"

You can take $10-20,000.00 or more and grease some wheels - anyone with that kind of cash can.

I don't think its prudent at this time. I spoke with two Senators who told me one point - "You don't need cash - you need votes" - what that means is quite simple - take action now - "get a letter campaign in the mail" NOW!

Websites are great for "Advertising and awareness" - its not the answer , just a beginning. I have taken that step - in one weeks time.

I am not here to step on WWW.Minitrucktalk.com - I have already spread links to it - Every day !

I have no "vested interest" in the importation of anything at this time. My interest is and has been to encourage others to protect their "Rights to Free Access" to whatever they chose to do.

I don't want to "Control" where the "KTA" spends its resources - I just want to and will help anyone affected by unfair "Agency" regulations.

Now with that said - I hope you don't take offense to my bluntness - but straight talk and action is what I do.


Thanks for reading this.
:D

[Mini Truck Exporter]

All,

One of the requirements of the KTA is for board members to handle Association business with professionalism. For the time being I am a board member, and I don't plan to argue with any member. However, I feel some corrections are in order here in light of Bullitt's accusations.

I want to be certain that the principles of the KTA are represented clearly today, and always. I want to use these accusations as an opportunity to further define our intentions and our direction.

1. Board members are not being picked by anyone at this time. Rather they are volunteer positions as long as the basic requirements are met. Later down the road, registered members will vote or even run themselves.

2. Funding has not been asked for as of yet. There is much work to be done before I think the Association can begin that stage. As well, there is a lot we can do without money and just sheer direction and desire. When the time comes for funding, it will be put towards many efforts to make a difference and the KTA members will be the driving force. The funds will be managed and financial reports will be sent on a regular basis to all registered KTA members as it should be.

3. There is no "Action" here. Not really sure what that means. This is an Association working toward a common goal of the industry. The initial requirements are just that, initial. As the KTA takes form and evolves, these types of issues will be put to a vote among the members. If you feel changes are needed to keep efforts on the right path, then so be it. However, at the initial stage, I think the industry deserves people who are actually in our business to sit on the board but that can change if so desired by the majority. That's called democracy!

4. Just because you do not sit on the board DOES NOT mean you do not have a voice. Certainly once we have reached our initial organizational structure, we can raise the issue of board eligibility to the members for a vote. If member majority votes to change it, then it will change accordingly.

5. Why haven't those Importers who have been making profits done something before now? Because there hasn't been any organization of the industry and those who have tried to make a difference stand alone. There has been more effort than many know. But without an organizational structure and communications, it is widely unknown.

6. Bullitt's ability to have a letter to every Senator and Congressman in the country in 3 weeks. Just such a task is on the agenda. Would you mind laying out your plan in this thread Rick? I want to see what resources you need.

7. Two Senators told you we need votes. What kind of votes? Can you please share more details concerning these discussion and what advice you were given?

8. Unfair Agency Regulations.
This is all relative. I don't think of the set regulations as unfair. I see them as regulations made by people who are tasked to set regulations and aren't always fully informed themselves. Another action item on the agenda is to work with the agencies at a higher level than ever before so that the challenges can be discussed.

A close working relationship with these agencies can make a difference. Here's a good example of some of the challenges that are rarely heard about but should be discussed with the agencies.

Among the violations with these imports has been non-compliant Speed Limiters. I'm not talking about non existent, but non-compliant. Many are deemed non-compliant due to the thickness of metal being under 1/8" set as a requirement by the EPA. One of the biggest reasons why this often happens is actually quite simple.

1/8" steel is not available as off the shelf steel product in Japan. It would be like one of us shopping around for a certain thickness in mm. Thus, most Japanese exporters are going to make an effort to find the closest thing they can for you. Cost is of course a factor so they will buy the closet thing to 1/8" but often under rather than over. The next thing you know, your container is rejected because it is non-compliant. Especially as of October 1st, 2008.

There are many seemingly small issues like this which the KTA will address at the appropriate levels of the respective agencies.

I hope this brings more clarity to what we are about.


American Kei Truck Association

[Mid America Mini Trucks]

Thanks Jeff We need unity not nay sayers. I hope Bullit will work with us with his Senators I dont think anyone is picking on him or anyone else. This organization is for EVERYONE!be it an owner of a truck a Canadian hoping to help his South of The Border Brothers in our efforts to continue to get our little trucks and possibly get them allowed on the public roads. If we all work together we can accomplish much that is been neglected in the past. Bullit, I hope you decide to use your efforts to help us in the KTA. No one is picking on you and I do not understand your intimating that you are being picked on. Your input is just as valued as anyone else that has requested to join the KTA. Hope this answers the questions you pose and hope you will now work with us.

NOW CAN WE GET ON WITH DOING KTA BUSINESS??
who wants to join now?? It doesnt cost anything at this point ad will give you updates as soon as we get info

[greg0187]

NOW CAN WE GET ON WITH DOING KTA BUSINESS??


Is this a non-profit organization?

[Mid America Mini Trucks]

NON PROFIT AND WILL HAVE A TREASURERS REPORT ON EVERY PENNY HOWEVER IT COSTS NOTHING TO JOINwill have reasonable dues later depending on whether you are an exporter, importer or dealer whose dues will be higher that the enthusiasts. Read Jeffs other posts all kinds of issues surrounding the Kei class trucks will be worked on. Hopefully even a rally in the near future

[Mini4WD]

Thanks Jeff We need unity not nay sayers. I hope Bullit will work with us with his Senators I dont think anyone is picking on him or anyone else. This organization is for EVERYONE!be it an owner of a truck a Canadian hoping to help his South of The Border Brothers in our efforts to continue to get our little trucks and possibly get them allowed on the public roads. If we all work together we can accomplish much that is been neglected in the past. Bullit, I hope you decide to use your efforts to help us in the KTA. No one is picking on you and I do not understand your intimating that you are being picked on. Your input is just as valued as anyone else that has requested to join the KTA. Hope this answers the questions you pose and hope you will now work with us.

NOW CAN WE GET ON WITH DOING KTA BUSINESS??
who wants to join now?? It doesnt cost anything at this point ad will give you updates as soon as we get info

Exactly what is the goal of this new KTA? There have been many threads and post pointing fingers, blaming others, people fighting over who will lead the KTA, people fighting over who can be a board member and who can't, several different people setting up KTA websites away from this site, people talking about membership dues, etc.. but still I'm not sure of the exact goal at present. I "thought" the goal might be to get regulations changed so the Kei trucks could remain to be imported into the U.S. so the American Importers/Dealers could continue to sell these trucks. Is that the goal or is the goal to get these Kei trucks allowed on Public Roads? Either way, could someone enlighten me on the exact goal of the KTA without all the banding together, write your congressman, write your senator, join our group mumbo jumbo. I know the KTA is still in its infant stage and has a lot to work through but there has to be a specific goal. So once again, what is the EXACT GOAL of the KTA???

[bullitt4248]

"However, I feel some corrections are in order here in light of Bullitt's "accusations."

What "Accusations" have I made?

1. "Board members are not being picked by anyone at this time. Rather they are volunteer positions as long as the basic requirements are met. Later down the road, registered members will vote or even run themselves."
You're already a "Board Member" according to your statements - True - False?
You know , unlike yourself - I have no vested interest at this time in either importation or resale of Mini Trucks. - If those are "Accusations" and not facts please correct and inform everyone where I am incorrect ! I made "Statements of Fact."

Your rule, blocks me and others from even being a "Volunteer Board Member" - True - False?

2. Funding has not been asked for as of yet. There is much work to be done before I think the Association can begin that stage. As well, there is a lot we can do without money and just sheer direction and desire. When the time comes for funding, it will be put toward many efforts to make a difference and the KTA members will be the driving force. The funds will be managed and financial reports will be sent on a regular basis to all registered KTA members as it should be.(Agreed)

3. There is no "Action" here. Not really sure what that means. This is an Association working toward a common goal of the industry. The initial requirements are just that, initial. As the KTA takes form and evolves, these types of issues will be put to a vote among the members. If you feel changes are needed to keep efforts on the right path, then so be it. However, at the initial stage, I think the industry deserves people who are actually in our business to sit on the board but that can change if so desired by the majority. That's called democracy!(Agreed)

4. Just because you do not sit on the board DOES NOT mean you do not have a voice. Certainly once we have reached our initial organizational structure, we can raise the issue of board eligibility to the members for a vote. If member majority votes to change it, then it will change accordingly.(So only those who agree with you - at present, can be on the "Board" - thats what it sounds like.)

5. Why haven't those Importers who have been making profits done something before now? Because there hasn't been any organization of the industry and those who have tried to make a difference stand alone. There has been more effort than many know. But without an organizational structure and communications, it is widely unknown.(Agreed)

6. Bullitt's ability to have a letter to every Senator and Congressman in the country in 3 weeks. Just such a task is on the agenda. Would you mind laying out your plan in this thread Rick? I want to see what resources you need. Why will you bank it ?
Actually as a businessman -and if, as you stated "just such a task is on the agenda" - you should know all about mass mailings and there costs - so now you want me to tell you how to do it - while you "Exclude" me. I will lay it out to anyone who wishes to help support the cost of the effort. Also - all monies can easily be tracked - I will gladly post accurate numbers- for those who invest. Its an ad campaign - therefore should also serve as a deductible expense to Dealer/reseller members

7. Two Senators told you we need votes. What kind of votes? Can you please share more details concerning these discussion and what advice you were given? - What was stated, I covered before - If you want to get their attention - you have to educate them and show numbers - not actually dollar signs - numbers of voters we can affect.

8. Unfair Agency Regulations.
This is all relative. I don't think of the set regulations as unfair. I see them as regulations made by people who are tasked to set regulations and aren't always fully informed themselves. Another action item on the agenda is to work with the agencies at a higher level than ever before so that the challenges can be discussed.(Agreed)

A close working relationship with these agencies can make a difference. Here's a good example of some of the challenges that are rarely heard about but should be discussed with the agencies.

Among the violations with these imports has been non-compliant Speed Limiters. I'm not talking about non existent, but non-compliant. Many are deemed non-compliant due to the thickness of metal being under 1/8" set as a requirement by the EPA. One of the biggest reasons why this often happens is actually quite simple.

1/8" steel is not available as off the shelf steel product in Japan. It would be like one of us shopping around for a certain thickness in mm. Thus, most Japanese exporters are going to make an effort to find the closest thing they can for you. Cost is of course a factor so they will buy the closet thing to 1/8" but often under rather than over. The next thing you know, your container is rejected because it is non-compliant. Especially as of October 1st, 2008.

There are many seemingly small issues like this which the KTA will address at the appropriate levels of the respective agencies.(Agreed)I hope this brings more clarity to what we are about.

American Kei Truck Association

First , I don't feel "Picked on" - I am not that thin skinned. I am just stating my views and continuing to grow my sites web presence.

As I stated many times - I am not acting out of "Turf Protectionism" or for want of control - I am and will continue to raise awareness and help any way I can - My life will not change as a result of KTA's existence.

I never once even hinted at being adversarial in any way. As far as the letter writing campaign - anyone want to be included - I will help you do it - NO Profits to me - totally volunteer my time to do all the leg work. All receipts presented to those who contribute - step by step.

I have nothing to gain by deceiving anyone - I am not asking for major investments - read my other posts - I run campaigns that reached over 60,000 people on less than $4 or $5000.00 .

But one thing you must admit - as I said before - my presence has definitely lit the candle. :D

[Mid America Mini Trucks]

hey Bullit! Drop It. No One Wants Your Bickering Or Is Interested In Your Past Conquest. You Have Neither Imported Or Own A Kei Truck As Per Your Own Statement. Lets See If Kevin Will Start You A Section So You Can Scream Your Merits There. Sorry Youve Pushed It To A Nasty Post.

[Mid America Mini Trucks]

MINI 4X4

the KTA is interested in getting all of us interested as owners of mini trucks or importers or exporters of our trucks into an organized body

Our primary goal is to set up a line of communication with EPA and Customs to represent our industry and sport so we can continue to import and supply those of us who have the trucks.

Our second goal would be to atempt to make these units street legal in all states instead of just a few.

The third goal would be the education of the public on the Kei class of vehicles and their benefits.

Currently there are NO DUES to the KTA however as we progress, we are certain that a lobbyist will have to be secured who knows what he is doing and at that point we will all share the cost. The majority of that cost would be borne by importers and exporters.
We als promise full accountability on all funds collected and what they were used for. This is NOT an organization to line someones pockets, its funds are for use ONLY for necessary expenses. This will be a democratic group will elected officials and we hope to hear from everyone with their constructive remarks If you have ideas or want to join, for now you can contact Jeff Barnett or myself via this forum and we will put you on the list and include you in all of our emails to KTA members.

I hope this answers your questions and I hope we can eliminate those that are doing all the bickering and all push in the proper direction for our trucks. Any further questions we will gladly answer

[bullitt4248]

hey Bullit! Drop It. No One Wants Your Bickering Or Is Interested In Your Past Conquest. You Have Neither Imported Or Own A Kei Truck As Per Your Own Statement. Lets See If Kevin Will Start You A Section So You Can Scream Your Merits There. Sorry You've Pushed It To A Nasty Post.


I see , as is all two often the case - those who have "Vested Interests" and those who will "Profit" the most are the most vocal.

Others have contacted me and with some luck we will raise awareness as well.

While your "Association" seems to focus on supporting your interests - We will try and support the "End Users" as well as dealers.

I will continue to speak my mind - "Members of KTA" will have their say. Thats "Democracy"

Your posts don't upset me - their your feelings - I have only stated facts and answered questions posed to me. Its clear to me and others who's steering "KTA" and why.

Best Regards and I hope you prove me wrong by actually "Taking Action" instead of dickering and excluding people like me.

:pop:

[Mini Truck Exporter]

Since the "Street Legal" issue has come up, I wanted to clarify the Associations point of view.

Our first goal is to return things to normal. Normal to us is to restore things under their current set of regulations. That means classification under Tariff 8709.10.0030 by meeting EPA40 CFR85.1703(a). Basically giving us the opportunity to continue on as we have been first.

The EPA has stated to me, that their "Principle Concern" is the actions of returning the trucks back to a "Motor Vehicle" status after entering the country classified as "Non-Road Vehicles". Incidentally, one major difference between these classifications is that "Motor Vehicles" are subject to a 25% duty where the "Non-Road" classification is not. However, that point was not raised as the issue. I am only mentioning it here as a fact of motor vehicle classifications.

In order to license the vehicles under proper circumstances, it would require they be reclassified to a "Motor Vehicle" which if my memory serves me right, is Tariff 8704. And, subject to a 25% duty. That in itself will be quite an undertaking and is something we will revisit later on. It also becomes more complex since it draws in other agencies.

In my conversations with the EPA, I also brought up the issue of the states defining their own processes for licensing the vehicles. According to the EPA, they intend to address this issue later down the road. At the very least, I'm sure that it will be a very interesting course of events when and if it happens.



Best regards,

American Kei Truck association

[minitruck.ca]

These Trucks where designed as Trucks in Japan and used on the roads in Japan. We all know that every user in the US has bashed or cut of the sift restricter box and make the Truck drive faster than 25MPH. In Canada some have tried to import these as ATV's with speed limiter (shift lock boxes) Canada Customs seized them as they are a Road Truck in Thier eyes. The ATV Dealers don't like them as Sales have dropped. They don't have any complaint here as we don't import them as ATV's we change the lights and tires so they conform to road spects.

[bullitt4248]

I just cant help question the actual use of the name "KTA" - isn't it at this point in time - a bit misleading?

Is this name being used to "Imply" there is a actual organized effort being implemented?

What others and I see is the appearance that One Major Importer is protecting his interests - while others are needing answers.

Why would it take so long to organize? The rules weren't changed "Mid stream." Some smart people found a "Loop-whole" and jumped through it.

They knew the rules were there all along. Were "dealers/resellers" misled?

Now I know some may have "Mis-lead" themselves , but, for the most part who actually profited?

I guess I am just a inquisitive person - I just feel - as unexperienced as I am in this "Business" - that had I been a reseller about to buy a container full of goods - I would or should have known the rules at that time.

Just some of my humble observations and opinions!


:pop:

[bullitt4248]

Who is :

Mini Truck Importer ?

Consumer Imports ?

American Kei Truck Association ?

Also one poster says "Our goal is to make them street legal"

Mr.J.Barnett says, "No we aren't trying to make them street legal. We are trying to keep them being imported as off-road vehicles." He also claims to speak for "KTA".

Who is "AKTA" also mentioned in some posts on this site.

Is it "KTA's" goal to keep the "KEI trucks" classified as "Off-road" - if so , how does this affect the issue of "Speed Limiters" - will they all have to comply( 25 mph limit)?

If that is the goal of the "KTA" wouldn't that hurt the dealers who sell them for road use.

Won't that cause the Federal Government to be forced to make a "National Classification" of these type/class vehicles road worthiness ? !

It appears there is some confusion as to who "KTA" is and what they are doing, for who and why! Is "AKTA" - "Mini Truck Importer" - "KTA" - and "Consumer Imports LLC." actually the same people or person ?

If straight talking is "Abrasive" - I plead guilty.
If being "Pushy" is because I ask questions and want straight answers - I guess I just shoved someone again.


:DThanks for reading this.

[miniman]

What is your point? Is it that someone or some company made money selling mini trucks? ooohhh noooo, someone made money! This refers back to your thread about importers being honest about the epa. This is the typical UAW mentality, "the man's trying to make a buck off us" thinking that has no place here. These are the same ideals that have just about bankrupted the auto industry, and hopefully all the states that have a heavy UAW presence will change to a right to work state.

As for road use everyone needs to drop it! they were NOT imported for that. Just because you WANT to drive it on the road does NOT mean you are entitled to. If you you do not like the fact you cannot drive them on the road, then don't buy one. NOTHING will happen that will allow these trucks on the road, even if the EPA says "OK", the dept. of Transportation will not allow them entry as road vehicles because they are NOT crash tested and don't give me the BS argument about motorcycles and 3 wheel trucks, it's never going to happen.

IMO and you are entitled to yours

[bullitt4248]

What is your point? If this was posed to me: My point is this, If Importers understood the rules when they started Importing - did they and are they now , practicing "Full and Honest Disclosure".?--------------------------------------------------------------


miniman;24310] Is it that someone or some company made money selling mini trucks? ooohhh noooo, someone made money! This refers back to your thread about importers being honest about the EPA. This is the typical UAW mentality, "the man's trying to make a buck off us" thinking that has no place here. These are the same ideals that have just about bankrupted the auto industry, and hopefully all the states that have a heavy UAW presence will change to a right to work state.

Sorry, but I don't support your claim - you try to avoid the stated questions by again confusing the issues. There is no "UAW" conspiring against anyone here. Unions helped build this Country. You seem to have problems with the UAW and your opinions are valid - though not responsive to the questions posed ?

As for road use everyone needs to drop it! they were NOT imported for that. Just because you WANT to drive it on the road does NOT mean you are entitled to. If you you do not like the fact you cannot drive them on the road, then don't buy one. NOTHING will happen that will allow these trucks on the road, even if the EPA says "OK", the dept. of Transportation will not allow them entry as road vehicles because they are NOT crash tested and don't give me the BS argument about motorcycles and 3 wheel trucks, it's never going to happen.

IMO and you are entitled to yours

So let me restate my questions;
Who is :

KTA = (Kei Truck Association) ?

Mini Truck Importer ?

Consumer Imports LLC. ?

American Kei Truck Association ?

Also one poster says "Our goal is to make them street legal"

Mr.J.Barnett says, "No we aren't trying to make them street legal. We are trying to keep them being imported as off-road vehicles." He also claims to speak for "KTA".

Who is "AKTA" also mentioned in some posts on this site.

Is it "KTA's" goal to keep the "KEI trucks" classified as "Off-road" - if so , how does this affect the issue of "Speed Limiters" - will they all have to comply( 25 mph limit)?

If that is the goal of the "KTA", wouldn't that hurt the dealers who sell them for road use.

Won't that cause the Federal Government to be forced to make a "National Classification" of these type/class vehicles road worthiness ? !

It appears there is some confusion as to who "KTA" is and what they are doing, for who and why !

Is "AKTA" - "Mini Truck Importer" - "KTA" - and "Consumer Imports LLC." actually the same people or person ?


Why is that such a hard or unfair question ? Why would those questions "Upset" some people here ? If people are going to join and $upport a "Association" - shouldn't they understand exactly who's steering it and why?


:confused:

[Mighty Milt]

Bullitt,

let it go man, just let it go. there is no need to continue harrassing people. it is ok for there to be private parties involved in what's happing with the legislation of these trucks. you have offered your services, they have decided to pursue it without your help, just cut bait and go. i'm not saying you should leave the site, but let the issue go. there is no need to beat a dead horse.

i can tell you there is a lot more information that has not been released yet to keep panic levels to a minimum and reduce speculation & woe.

please feel free to maintain your membership, enjoy the posts and contribute what you can, but step off the soap box and cease the interrogations. i think it will be bests for all parties involved.

cheers
milt

[gbrad]

Just my 2 cents, but it seems that Bullitt is the one causing issues and dis-info. Kinda like an agent provocatuer??? Why should we listen or trust Bullitt who seems to have shown up at just the right time? Just a coincidence of good timing?

Why would I or anyone care that the person who starts an organization is also a mini truck dealer? Who the hell else would care enough? I think it's commendable that someone has taken the inititive and is spending his time trying to help the rest of us as well as save his own business.

We do need an organized front. Is KTA the right one? I dunno, but it seems to be the only game in town. I'm with it until I find out different.

I don't agree with everything the NRA says. Frankly, they are twenty-five years late trying to stop gun control legislation, but they are the only game in town and I am a supporting member.

gbrad

[chickendumpling]

What is your point? Is it that someone or some company made money selling mini trucks? ooohhh noooo, someone made money! This refers back to your thread about importers being honest about the epa. This is the typical UAW mentality, "the man's trying to make a buck off us" thinking that has no place here. These are the same ideals that have just about bankrupted the auto industry, and hopefully all the states that have a heavy UAW presence will change to a right to work state.

As for road use everyone needs to drop it! they were NOT imported for that. Just because you WANT to drive it on the road does NOT mean you are entitled to. If you you do not like the fact you cannot drive them on the road, then don't buy one. NOTHING will happen that will allow these trucks on the road, even if the EPA says "OK", the dept. of Transportation will not allow them entry as road vehicles because they are NOT crash tested and don't give me the BS argument about motorcycles and 3 wheel trucks, it's never going to happen.

IMO and you are entitled to yours


Really don't plan to drop it. The BS arguments...they are legit, you can't just dismiss them...that would make everything easy in debate. As far as I can tell, the States have some leeway pending their individual circumstances. While I hope you are wrong that it will never happen, I hope to enjoy some limited on-road use. These are TRUCKS...how they are ReClassified (AG Equipment, USED TRUCKS on import documents) is interesting to say, at the least. 25mph off road use...that should irritate any of us!? I would ReClassify that as BS :D

[xroadsimport]

There are a lot of issues here and I don't have the time to get into all of them. However the stratagy to keep the Kei trucks off the road is the right thing to do. I would love to drive them on the road as well but it is not in the best interest of the industry. If it were not for the states legalizing them for the road we would not have the EPA trying to cut them off at the source. That is a plain and simple fact.

Me and my organization are currently making efforts to be part of the KTA. We will see how that goes. I would understand that the initial membership will need to be people from the industry. Mainly the importers, and I don't know what any of the plans for the KTA are for the future involvment of dealers and owners would be.

[chickendumpling]

The State's fault? Hold the train... I do know for a fact that importers and dealers fully promoted on-road, removed governors, etc to pitch a sale. States just didn't come up out of the blue and started making exceptions or lumping with the other off-road use categories. Yes, owners could bring attention too but I've experienced this first hand. Importers and dealers had em titled etc - ready to go and this is what you need to do for driving on the road. Ethics and blame? For those in the KTA who have done business in those States, how are you going to handle this with past, potential new buyers, and those States/media?

What about the EPAs Audit Policy and Compliance Incentives etc? The public can bring forth violations....

[Steves supermini 4x4s]

The State's fault? Hold the train... I do know for a fact that importers and dealers fully promoted on-road, removed governors, etc to pitch a sale. States just didn't come up out of the blue and started making exceptions or lumping with the other off-road use categories. Yes, owners could bring attention too but I've experienced this first hand. Importers and dealers had em titled etc - ready to go and this is what you need to do for driving on the road. Ethics and blame? For those in the KTA who have done business in those States, how are you going to handle this with past, potential new buyers, and those States/media?

What about the EPAs Audit Policy and Compliance Incentives etc? The public can bring forth violations....

Well said Chickendumpling.

[greg0187]

Well said Chickendumpling.

Welcome back Steve!

[rayallen]

Chickendumpling....Nite bit of info. If the sellers of the trucks keep on saying we with tags on them are the cause of the epa getting involved, a total fabrication lie, how do they expect to sell us any parts in the future. Those who just deal with the problems will be the ones who we will buy from. Even Oklahoma has a dealer close to the Texas border who thinks we can't drive legally on Oklahoma roads. Wish he would stop the Oklahoma Highway Patrol cars and tell them we can't. When they tell him he is wrong then he must tell them they are wrong and see what happens. There is a old saying.....The more you stir up sh*t the more it stinks. Now why don't you dealers who do not want any business form buyers in Oklahoma just go ahead and stir it and see if we let you make any money off us. Just my opinion but my money is also mine to spend with whoever I please. Think about it. ray allen

[xroadsimport]

WHOW!!! I may be a little misunderstood her or taken out of context. It is a complicated issue and would take a great deal of time to fully explain that I don't have. We are currently recieving 37 containers in the next couple weeks so I am a little busy. Also heading back to the great state of South Dakota for Thanksgiving to visit the family. Where also it should be noted that I can drive my dad's mini truck legaly on the road.

I am not blaming the states, owners, dealers, or anyone else for the ban. It is just a simple FACT (I am not a lier:)) that the states legalizing them is a major factor in the rule change and the motivation of the EPA to make that rule change. That being said I believe that the trucks are a good product for the road. I believe they should be allowed on the road. It is just not a good tactic to take at this point. I can't blame people for trying to put them on the road. It is just natural and inevitable that they will. Even if it is "good" it is not a good idea or tactic at this point.

[gregw98]

If it were not for the states legalizing them for the road we would not have the EPA trying to cut them off at the source. That is a plain and simple fact.

Well Cory, if you had never started trying to make money by importing Kei trucks, people wouldn't be buying them and driving them on the roads. And then the EPA wouldn't have gotten their feathers ruffled and this whole mess could have been avoided. I seriously doubt that the EPA is driving around in Geo Metros covering every little 'rooster poot' town looking for violators of EPA laws. So, bottomline is that it is the dealers' fault for trying to make a profit on the mis-informed public. This is not the first time that you pointed a finger of blame. 'It is what it is' and since your time seems limited, I see no reason for you to continue to waste time and energy pointing fingers.
I still believe that the ATV importers are behind this entire situation, fearing that the Kei trucks will hurt their deep pockets. Money is exchanging hands somewhere.
greg

[miniMOG]

off topic----

Xroads- 37 containers? :eek: WOW- you the MAN!!!

I probably have sold as many trucks as anyone, and the most containers I have had coming at once is a measly 4.:p

now back to your regularly scheduled program...:pop:

[Mini4WD]

There are a lot of issues here and I don't have the time to get into all of them. However the stratagy to keep the Kei trucks off the road is the right thing to do. I would love to drive them on the road as well but it is not in the best interest of the industry. If it were not for the states legalizing them for the road we would not have the EPA trying to cut them off at the source. That is a plain and simple fact.

Me and my organization are currently making efforts to be part of the KTA. We will see how that goes. I would understand that the initial membership will need to be people from the industry. Mainly the importers, and I don't know what any of the plans for the KTA are for the future involvment of dealers and owners would be.

Something just isn't clicking with this... You say that states legalizing them for the road is causing the EPA to cut the trucks off at the source...then you also say you are currently making efforts to be part of the KTA????
This is what the KTA posted earlier in this same thread..
"the KTA is interested in getting all of us interested as owners of mini trucks or importers or exporters of our trucks into an organized body

Our primary goal is to set up a line of communication with EPA and Customs to represent our industry and sport so we can continue to import and supply those of us who have the trucks.

Our second goal would be to atempt to make these units street legal in all states instead of just a few.

The third goal would be the education of the public on the Kei class of vehicles and their benefits.



Did you notice the "second goal"???? That means you are supporting an organization that you believe caused this EPA problem in the first place. Right???

I'm all for driving them on the road as long as it is legal..

[BillinOregon]

Sorry I even open this thread. Here it goes. During the sales cycle my dealer warned me several times that these were for off road only. I mentioned the on-reoad possibility and he shut me down - in a polite way. I spoke with another dealer in Idaho - he did the same. This was over a year ago. Looking back - it was almost like they new that this would cause issues down the road. Well - here we are. We could still be flying under the radar.

[gregw98]

Okay, okay, blame it all on the guys driving their trucks on the roadways. Come on, get real. Again, do you honestly think that some G-man in a short sleeve white shirt with a skinny tie is riding around looking for violaters of EPA
rules and laws/

[miniman]

No, I don't think that will ever happen, However the states legalizing them did play a role in this. When I spoke to the EPA before the ruling came out about our speed limiters and wanting to pre-approve them I was told it would probably be a waste of time since "many states are allowing them on the road and that was not their intended purpose and that the EPA didn't have the resources to tell every state what they could or could not do so they were just going to turn it off at the spicket".

I dont' understand why some people are so pissed off about the mini's not being street legal. THAT WAS NEVER THEIR PURPOSE HERE, just because you want that to be their purpose doesn't change anything. If you don't like it, don't buy one, it really is that simple. All of this stupid , simple minded, conspiracy theories are absurd, they EPA has told many of us straight up the minis were included because some states are legalizing them.:frustration:

[rayallen]

Sure glad my state legalized them so I can hunt, fish, check cows, ect in mine. ray allen

[gregw98]

THAT WAS NEVER THEIR PURPOSE HERE
HERE is your key word that makes this statement true. But the fact is, they were never intended to be used as an off-road hunting/farming vehicle in the first place. Because of EPA restrictions, it was decided by themselves to reclassify them. Does it really make that much difference, pollution-wise, whether I am driving in a ditch or pasture along side a country road or driving down at highway, at much lower RPMs certainly using less gas.
Am I pissed, yes I am. I bought my truck for the sole purpose of it being an economical means of transportation in mostly city driving. My state approved them for highway use and so I bought one. Now the EPA decides to take a used truck with a used engine and say you can drive it on the road, but you engine has been reclassified as a "new offroad engine" and you can't drive your truck on the highway with that engine. Well, what the hell do they expect me to do, push it by hand. So yeah, I am pissed. So would you be.

[RrustyDawg]

Several of the posts across this thread and others have used words to the effect of "When I spoke with the EPA, they said..."

Those statements are completely meaningless. Have any of you actually had to try and get a straight answer out of any government agency (State, US, Canadian, etc.)? The "EPA" is a huge organization. Unless you are talking with an Under-Secretary or Deputy Under-Secretary directly, then you are only getting one persons opinion as to why the agency is taking actions. I am not saying that those on this forum who reference their conversations with "the EPA" are wrong. I'm just saying that unless you provide their job title, then you might as well be saying you spoke with little green men from Mars because they have just as much authority to speak for an entire agency.

So... Is the current EPA action due to some States getting overzealous and making them street legal? Perhaps, but I doubt it. The current administration is normally a solid supporter of States Rights, so while they wouldn't condone state legalization, they also wouldn't go out of their way to slap them. Also, if the U.S. federal government wanted them off the streets and back out into the pastures, they can simply threaten to pull Federal matching highway funds. That's how we got a nationwide raise of the minimum drinking age to 21.

Here is my 2 yen opinion: We are a victim of our own success. Let's face it, when the import volume was measured in tens and hundreds, the gov't agencies could stick with ridiculous tricks like shifting limiters to satisfy the letter of the regulations. Everybody on both sides of the table knew that the shift limiters would be removed 3.2 seconds after arriving in the consumers hands, but the importer, seller and government collective rears were covered. This worked for a while because Kei's were still an insignificant blip on the screen.

Well, there are 2 things the U.S. federal government does well...spend money and count things. 1, 2, 5, 20, 100... And the bean counters love to make projections. What do you think the projection report for mini-truck imports said last spring as gas prices were climbing higher and higher and folks were looking for cheap, fuel-efficient vehicles to drive?

Even the EPA can do simple math and come to the realization that Kei's are no longer a minor blip. As import numbers continued to rise at an increasing rate, they could no longer pay lip-service to the reg's on these trucks. So the reason the EPA is stepping up regulatory management on kei's is that we are importing, selling, and driving them now in large enough numbers that they cannot be ignored.

This isn't to lay blame at anyone's feet. The North American market wants kei's ON THE STREETS LEGALLY IN ALL 50 STATES and we need a good organization to move us forward. I hope KTA fulfills that mission.

[miniman]

Kei trucks will NEVER EVER, EVER, EVER, be allowed to be imported for standard driving, NEVER! The EPA is only one part of the puzzle, if the EPA came out today and said they meet emission standards the DOT would say NO WAY because they do not meet safety standards..... Jesus why can't everyone stop pipe dreaming and just accept the trucks for what they are? :frustration:

[RrustyDawg]

Accept the trucks for what they are you say...

Is the shift limiter still installed on your mini?

If you answer yes, then I will consider your position more thoroughly. Otherwise, you are asking me to accept limits while you chose to remove Government-mandated limits.

If everybody would just leave those limiters installed, the EPA wouldn't have had to step up their efforts. I don't know why folks wouldn't "accept" their trucks the way the EPA told us to use them!

For me, I guess I will just have to be satisfied with the 68,679 square miles of Oklahoma land area available for my mini to travel (except for the Interstate highways, of course)

[Timetripper]

miniman,

What is your occupation? training? education? I am curious why you think you are so right.

Do you think Japanese Kei trucks have No safety standards?

The 2008 Kei trucks have just as many safety devices as any other vehicle
i.e. Air bags, ABS, etc and are Crash Tested in Japan

As far as I have read there are no Kei trucks being allowed on any Interstate or highway just normal city/ country streets by any of the States.

So they are be used in the States that have legalized them exactly in the way the manufactures in Japan had designed them for.

[Mini4WD]

Kei trucks will NEVER EVER, EVER, EVER, be allowed to be imported for standard driving, NEVER! The EPA is only one part of the puzzle, if the EPA came out today and said they meet emission standards the DOT would say NO WAY because they do not meet safety standards..... Jesus why can't everyone stop pipe dreaming and just accept the trucks for what they are? :frustration:

NEVER EVER, EVER, EVER are a pretty strong words, especially to those States that now already allow them to be driven on the roadways legally. It doesn't really matter what they're imported purpose was...they are DRIVING them on the roads in several states..and its all legal. I can think of many items that are used for other purposes other than what they were sold for. I accepted the fact that my truck was for off road use only when I purchased it. The seller could not have cared less what my intentions for the truck was.. All he cared about was making his profit off that truck. Don't get me wrong, I bought it for off road use but will jump at the chance to get it street legal if that time ever comes.

[miniman]

As a matter of fact, I have 21 trucks here right now and each and everyone has a three sided speedlimiter and every customer is made well aware they are for off road only

[RrustyDawg]

But miniman...what about your personal-use or business-use mini-truck that is not for sale to the public? (I am assuming you own one yourself...I have yet to meet someone selling these who doesn't own some for their own use)

Do you own/operate a minitruck that has its speed limiter removed?

P.S. Regardless of your response, I respect your opinion and enthusiasm for kei trucks in the U.S. market. I wish the KTA well in its efforts. Since this thread is trying to clarify what the KTA will or will not do, I will try to limit any further posts of mine to that subject matter.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[confuzed]

wow am i ever glad i live in Canada where it is a truck and can be used the way it was intended on any road be it gravel pavement or a highway it is a perfectly safe vehicle no more dangerous than driving a Suzuki made Firefly have had it up to 125 kmh and it is as steady as any american truck

[gregw98]

Either outlaw them or don't. If I can't drive mine on the road, then no one should be allowed to drive their's in a field or pasture. Pollution is pollution, whether it is coming from a Kei truck in the woods or a Kei truck on a road. It is the same.

[miniman]

But miniman...what about your personal-use or business-use mini-truck that is not for sale to the public? (I am assuming you own one yourself...I have yet to meet someone selling these who doesn't own some for their own use)

Do you own/operate a minitruck that has its speed limiter removed?

P.S. Regardless of your response, I respect your opinion and enthusiasm for kei trucks in the U.S. market. I wish the KTA well in its efforts. Since this thread is trying to clarify what the KTA will or will not do, I will try to limit any further posts of mine to that subject matter.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Actually it does, for two reasons. 1) I just keep a truck from each container for myself until the next load comes in and then I sell it 2) as an importer if you get caught with a truck W/O a plate whether it's personal or not it's 32,500 fine so I don't risk itl

[Shrimp Daddy]

Quote from Timetripper: "As far as I have read there are no Kei trucks being allowed on any Interstate or highway just normal city/ country streets by any of the States.

So they are be used in the States that have legalized them exactly in the way the manufactures in Japan had designed them for."


I called my licensing office at the town Courthouse and they basically said if you had a turd with wheels, Montana would license it so long you provided a translated import document, bill of sale and a vehicle DMV checklist that the Courthouse provides. No restrictions of Highway, Bi-way, or Gravel will impede your stampede.

As for the KTA; I will most likely ask to join in the future. I thank those of you who have questioned it's motive for formation and existence. I still am not sure as to why those questions could not be answered and put to rest allowing the common Ideal of the invention of the KTA to move foreword. I truly think that those of you at the reins of the KTA formation mean well and want to move it in the right direction that will benefit the members as a whole. Just remember that checks and balances as well as solid questions and answers keep us away from a Group Think mentality.

[KIMMER]

Hello, just found this site and have been reading about the whole street legal thing. Great site by the way!

Anyways, here is my question. If I can get my 08 Polaris RZR street legal in michigan by adding a windshield, horn, turn signals, windshield wiper and fluid sprayer, hi/low headlights, bumpers, and dot tires, why wouldn't you be able to do it with these? After adding these items, the state sends me a "ASSEMBLED VEHICLE" title and down to the dmv you go....simple as that for the the polaris rangers, rzr's, kawasaki mules, arctic cat prowlers, ect. I would think you could do the same with these. There are no emissions on my rzr and it is allowed to be street legal. There are thousand or more side by side atv's on the roads now in alot of states. Here's a pic of mine in non-streel legal form...lol.

This is just a question I had and i'm sure some of you have been down this road so I wondered what the difference is?

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/s197forum/Kimmerrzr.jpg

[Mighty Milt]

you must not have read too much on the subject :rolleyes:

the problem is that your vehicle was manufactured for off road use and has been accepted, after much testing by the manufacturer, to comply with rules and regulations set by the EPA and DOT.

these little trucks were manufactured for on road use. regardless of what they are imported to the US as, they are road going vehicles. they do not meet the DOT standards for on road use. they fall into a grey markey category. i can appreciate that you think it's so simple, because i did too... but that was before i went to the MVD 12 different times and got 12 different answers. i purchased mine for off road use and intended to have it licensed just like the guys license their rhinos so i could go on roads around the neighborhood, or on roads between trails. the MVD said it was too much of a road vehicle to be licensed for off road, that it wasn't acceptable by DOT standards for road use, and that it's against the law in arizona to title a "grey market" vehicle... so basically it boiled down to only being allowed on private property... hmmm have you seen how small my driveway is??

[KIMMER]

you must not have read too much on the subject :rolleyes:

the problem is that your vehicle was manufactured for off road use and has been accepted, after much testing by the manufacturer, to comply with rules and regulations set by the EPA and DOT.

these little trucks were manufactured for on road use. regardless of what they are imported to the US as, they are road going vehicles. they do not meet the DOT standards for on road use. they fall into a grey markey category. i can appreciate that you think it's so simple, because i did too... but that was before i went to the MVD 12 different times and got 12 different answers. i purchased mine for off road use and intended to have it licensed just like the guys license their rhinos so i could go on roads around the neighborhood, or on roads between trails. the MVD said it was too much of a road vehicle to be licensed for off road, that it wasn't acceptable by DOT standards for road use, and that it's against the law in arizona to title a "grey market" vehicle... so basically it boiled down to only being allowed on private property... hmmm have you seen how small my driveway is??

I read through as much as I could without spending a full day reading...lol. Thanks for the reply, that cleared it up perfectly! My brother is thinking about getting one.

[Shrimp Daddy]

Not to smite you, but you need to spend a full day reading, hell 2 days. There is so much info here about these lil trucks. Then tell 5 friends about the site. It really is well worth burning an afternoon searching this site for whatever tickles your fancy about these vehicles.

[gregw98]

I had thought about removioing my engine and installing an older modified VW engine in the rear bed area. Not sure where the EPA would stand on this, since engines seem to be the problem.

[xroadsimport]

Wow I am not blaming anyone. I am on your side. It seems that gregw98 is made at me for some reason. Bottom line is that I am on your side. I want to import mini trucks from Japan and sell them to you at a profit. Getting mad at me because I tried to give you some insight at to why the EPA is making the changes that they are is not going to help. There are a few reasons and things going on the get the EPA involved.

Wether you like it or not the states legalizing them is one of them. There are other reasons as well. I am on your side I think they should be legal to drive on the road as well, but the fact is that the EPA doesn't like it. If I could change their mind then I would.

[KIMMER]

It's pretty crazy that the EPA is so against it, when I can put my rzr on the road that is nothing more than a thin tube frame with a plastic body. One hit by another car and i'd be dead most likely, but these that are on the road in other countries and are made of steel, can't be and i'd put money on the fact that my rzr makes just as much polution if not more.

[Mighty Milt]

the rzr (rhino, mule, ranger) are classified as off road only. the emission testing for them (at least in arizona) is idle only. because they are for off road only the DOT has a very different policy on their safety standards, but they are scrutinized by the DOT.

i agree that the mini trucks are a much cleaner burning engine, but my opinion doesn't matter. truth be told, the facts don't matter. they are classified as "equipment" not as vehicles and must adhere to the "equipment" guidlines. they will easily pass, but the cost for having them tested is what has all the dealers in an up-roar.

as far as safety goes, i would much rather take my chances in a steel tube chassis draped in plastic than in the beer-can trucklette i drive. but as an avid motorcyclist for many years, i'm always on the defense and hope to avoid and "contact" with other motorists.

that's not to say it won't happen, i've already been hit in mine once. it was a minor rear end collision but it could have been much worse.

[KIMMER]

Hey Milt, not to get off the subject too much, but what are the guidelines for riding them on state trails with an orv sticker? Here in michigan we can ride our utv's on the orv trails that are for 50" and wider, but not the atv/motorcycle trails that require less than 50" of width. My brother is really thinking about getting one and the more I look at them, the more I want a 99 and up suzuki 4wd..lol. Might even sell my rzr if I can take it on the orv trails or trade my rzr for a zuki with some cash.

[rmay635703]

I dont' understand why some people are so pissed off about the mini's not being street legal. THAT WAS NEVER THEIR PURPOSE HERE, just because you want that to be their purpose doesn't change anything. If you don't like it, don't buy one, it really is that simple. All of this stupid , simple minded, conspiracy theories are absurd, they EPA has told many of us straight up the minis were included because some states are legalizing them.:frustration:

I am buying a STREET LEGAL 1970 Subaru 360 later this month, this just goes to show how STUPID our laws are. My 1981 Comutacar, My 1995 Miles ZX40 electric KEI MINI VAN and the 1970 Subaru Kei carr are all fully legal in this country but yet safer, newer vehicles are not because the EPA wasn't paid its 5million+ booty for crash test BS.

You can't tell me that a kei truck is any less safe than driving a motorcycle or for that matter a moped?

This is rediculous and should not be accepted, do a chinese trick and import so many "illegal" items that they cannot police it. Thats how many cheap laser crystals and other items got into our market and also how the interests in the market were bankrupted.

I hate big interests and this is just another show of how government hates people saving money.

My oppinion is that people should have CHOICE in what level of assumed safety they have in their vehicles. If the blasted thing passes foreign crash tests they should be allowed in on restricted licenses here.

What ever happened to the police walk around you could get to OK a vehicle?
Why should I not be allowed to buy a 70-80mpg foreign car or even a euro version of a domestic car that gets better mileage.

I would recommend you sign petitions similar to the NEV 35mph petition and send them off. Don't let this die, frustrate the special interests until they give up.

[chickendumpling]

KTA, I try to keep up on this when posted. It seems fairly silent right now. Is the KTA making any progress in terms of change?

It seems classification can be changed or new classifications made - gotta be some room here? Fees are the name of the game from Local/State/Federal - heck, should be able to please everyone on some level ;)

As we see these days, its all about the money!

[Donald Shimoda]

Kimmer,

You have already discovered the secret. It's called getting an "Assembled Title."

If you can build a dune buggy in your garage and get a title, the fact of the matter is that you can get a title for just about anything except those battery powered John Deere Mini-Gators that they sell at Toyz R Us. And who knows, maybe with some work, you could even get one of those made street legal.