Totally Confused

[gregw98]

I have been following all the EPA status. And I don't understand how a used vehicle with the same engine can suddenly become a "New Offroad Engine". Used is used, and never new again.
Yesterday, I was behind Chevy pickup work truck. It was about around 6 or 7 years old. I was in my mini and I swear this Chevy was smoking and about to choke mr to death. And they want to outlaw my truck for pollution reason, well duh! I may have asked this before, but how is it that I can built a 1964 Chevy van, remove the 6 cylinder and install a homebuilt 350 V8 in it and it can be made to be street legal. In Mississippi there are no stiff tests; your lights, horn, turn signals and wipers work, you get and inspection sticker. When building a HotRod roadster from pieces and parts, you are not subjected to anything other than the usual horn, lights, etc. If all are there and workingyou can obtain a "Homebuilt" title. What about all the car show cars, VW powered tri-cycles, Ratrods, and even a Boeing 707 that I saw, that was converted to a party limo (no wings). How are all these vehicles able to obtain a "roadworthy vehicle" status.
I remember when the govt. wanted to lower the speed limit from 70mph to 55mph and all states did not or want to comply with the change. The Feds threatened to hold out on issuing any Federal money to those states for highway use. Many states never did the change.
Somebody in D.C. has a reason to go after these trucks. Whatever the reason, who knows. My bet would be that one 747 or B-52 plane pollutes more than all the minis already in the USA on any given day. Even though I am trying to sell my truck and get a van, if I can't drive them on the road, then there is no reason for me to have one.
One last thing, are there any plans to let them Kei trucks that have been approved for 'road use', tagged and titled, stay on the road: like 'grandfathered in". Can the govt. make each state change the rules or does this just imply "that from now on" any import vehicles can not be made street legal. If they are made to not be street legal, then what do we have to do to made them street legal. This is all such a big political scam of some sort. There is a reason they are going after these vehicles.

[Mighty Milt]

it's because they are changing the classification of the vehicle from a road vehicle to to off road use only and governing them. they now fall into a different category and under a different umbrella of rules... that's why

[Mini Truck Exporter]

That's not accurate Milt. If they had been classified as a motor vehicle we would have been paying a 25% duty upon entry.

The classification is not changing. It has been classified under tariff 8709.10.0030 since 2005/2006 I believe. Nor does this have anything to do with the vehicle itself.

What did change however, is the emission standards for a certain class of non-road, spark ignited engines. By meeting EPA40 CFR85.1703(a) (speed limiting), the 550cc and 660cc engines fall into this non-road class. Thus, this engine ruling now affects the Kei trucks.

The ones who will be charged with rejecting containers will be US Customs and Border Protection. According to my contact at Customs, they have yet to be made aware of this action by the EPA! In addition, Customs must post such notices on the cbp web site as a formal means of communicating such changes to importers and customs brokers. To date, Customs has NOT received any communications regarding this latest change!

My last conversation with my contact at US Customs was this past Thursday. They still hadn't heard anything of the sort out of the EPA. Thus no posting yet.

Furthermore, my Customs contact tells me that when they do post these changes, they typically give 30-days before Customs will begin rejecting containers. How the EPA will stick to Dec. 8th when they have yet to inform customs is beyond me!

My contact was also going to call them (EPA) to find out about this. As soon as i have the feedback from that conversation I will post it.

Jeff Barnett
American Kei Truck Association

[Mighty Milt]

when i said off road use (keep in mind i live in cow country, between dairy farms and corn fields) i meant equipment, like a big generator or gas powered spark ignited vehicles. i never meant they were imported as a "vehicle"... sorry about that.

[Mini Truck Exporter]

No problem Milt.

Just trying to help educate the readers.

[Mid America Mini Trucks]

Dont forget to get on the bandwagon and have your say with the KTA

Here is a pic of my 91 Sambar I am just finishing up--- not nearly at neat as some ot the Phillipine trucks but mine any way. Alloys and other things coming soon!
http://images.imagelinky.com/1227328722.JPG]http://images.imagelinky.com/1227328722.JPG[/URL]

[gregw98]

Okay, so what you are telling me is that I can take a Hayabusa street legal, U.S. EPA approved engine and install it in my truck and the truck will now be street legal according the new EPA standards? Yes, the engines are expensive; and No, I am not likely to do this. I am just trying to find out where the line is being drawn in the sand, or does it keep moving.

http://paultan.org/archives/2007/05/17/golf-mk1-with-turbocharged-hayabusa-engine/

[Timetripper]

Greg, Thats a interesting thought you had.

If they [EPA] are just looking at the Kei's as "engines" only then what about any other '08 engine combo's that
could be switched in instead of the stock engine.

Is there fine print in the ruling that prohibits this?

[Tom's Mini Trucks]

Has anyone heard about a 60 day extention regarding the Dec. 8th entry date? I did hear this and cannot verify it anywhere.I do have more trucks in Japan and would like to get them shipped.The last thing I want to do is pay shipping back to Japan if they are not allowed entry.The rumor is that if you can prove the trucks were paid for before the Dec. date it is possible to have them approved for entry...Please anyone that can help me with this out there?

[Mighty Milt]

Okay, so what you are telling me is that I can take a Hayabusa street legal, U.S. EPA approved engine and install it in my truck and the truck will now be street legal according the new EPA standards? Yes, the engines are expensive; and No, I am not likely to do this. I am just trying to find out where the line is being drawn in the sand, or does it keep moving.

http://paultan.org/archives/2007/05/17/golf-mk1-with-turbocharged-hayabusa-engine/

i know to do that in arizona you have to have a dismantlers license (no big deal really) and show receipts and then it's a "kit car" or special construction and is registered as the year you built it. 1999 daihatsu + 2007 hyabusa = 2008 special construction.

if you notice in all the videos with the sport bike motors in the cars they are complete "gut wagons", that is to say they have been lightened as much as possible because the engine really has no "flywheel" that will store the energy to get something heavy rolling. and in this video you will notice the motor shutter a lot as it's burning out. i just don't know if that would give you the useable power you really need for offroad. sure, the motor is twice as big as the stock unit, but now you are asking that motor to move almost 3 times the mass. if it were me, i would fit a v-twin in there for the torque and power.

[gregw98]

I can find my own A$$ on this site. I asked this somewhere on here. The idea of removing the rear end and cutting a hole in the bed area to install a modified 1972 VW Beetle engine. I am talking about a 2wd HiJet Jumbo. I know this is all dreaming, but it is a must that I keep my truck road legal. I would like to sell my truck and pick up one of those $1000.00, 25mph industrial LHD Jumbos to chop on. I have $5k tied up in mine and not about to go chopping it up.
greg

[Mighty Milt]

being the vw guru i am, i would say give me the 72 vw and the jumbo and i can make this happen for you.

you have to take the entire rear section of the vw pan (from just in front of the vin) and graft it into the rear frame section of the truck. you can build the back of the bed up (it would end up looking like the old corvair greenbriar vans and pickups) or you could do a type III conversion (engine from a squareback, fastback or notchback) and that would save some bed space but they are a pain to work on.

once the graft is done you use the vw vin to register it and it's all good. i've already had this in mind, but a stock vw motor only makes around 57hp and is air cooled so you have to find ways that the air gets to it well and keeps it cool or they tend to cook themselves. not to mention they don't like the air conditioning units.

i would love to build one of those and wouldn't charge you anything for my efforts as long as you pay for the materials.

here's a good look at my handy work... keep in mind the car is all steel, no fibre glass, it had a full interior, a stereo with speakers and i drove it to work regularly... i was running some little 6" slicks on this race though.... the engine in this car was making about 210hp and ran 11.90 sec @ 110mph on the 1/4 mile.. i beat many muscle cars including a brand new viper, corvette and plenty of camaro's and mustangs

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j227/miltdamnit1/hangin.jpg

[KIMMER]

So, does this mean that the vehicles would have been perfectly legal if the importers/exporters had chose to pay the 25% duty instead or reclassifying them? Heck, if they were only $2000 a truck to begin with, what's another $500 to avoid all of this headache?

That's not accurate Milt. If they had been classified as a motor vehicle we would have been paying a 25% duty upon entry.

The classification is not changing. It has been classified under tariff 8709.10.0030 since 2005/2006 I believe. Nor does this have anything to do with the vehicle itself.

What did change however, is the emission standards for a certain class of non-road, spark ignited engines. By meeting EPA40 CFR85.1703(a) (speed limiting), the 550cc and 660cc engines fall into this non-road class. Thus, this engine ruling now affects the Kei trucks.

The ones who will be charged with rejecting containers will be US Customs and Border Protection. According to my contact at Customs, they have yet to be made aware of this action by the EPA! In addition, Customs must post such notices on the cbp web site as a formal means of communicating such changes to importers and customs brokers. To date, Customs has NOT received any communications regarding this latest change!

My last conversation with my contact at US Customs was this past Thursday. They still hadn't heard anything of the sort out of the EPA. Thus no posting yet.

Furthermore, my Customs contact tells me that when they do post these changes, they typically give 30-days before Customs will begin rejecting containers. How the EPA will stick to Dec. 8th when they have yet to inform customs is beyond me!

My contact was also going to call them (EPA) to find out about this. As soon as i have the feedback from that conversation I will post it.

Jeff Barnett
American Kei Truck Association

[Mighty Milt]

if it was compliant with all the epa and dot standards you could do that, but it's not so you can't.

although i did find a guy out here in mesa that imports the smart cars and makes them compliant with all EPA, DOT & FMVSS but he gets $2500 per vehicle and it takes him 4 - 6 weeks to get it all done... oh, wait, no, he can't do it to my truck since it's a 99 and my truck doesn't have air bags...

[gregw98]

Man, all this b/s over a little truck. And we have major US companies leave here and srtting up shop in Mexico, about 100 feet on the other side of the border. The feds have illegals crossing the border all day, every day. Drugas are being smuggled in by the truck loads, we are in the middle of 2 wars abroad. All this crapola going on and the Feds have nothing better to worry about than a few 1000 mini trucks. Maybe we need the ACLU on our side.
greg
MM: I am a VW guy too, looking a 72 basket case right now. Want to do a chop in the length, remove about 25 inches and make a "Shortie Bug". I have had 7 bugs.
greg

[chickendumpling]

Who offers EPA approved restrictors/governors? If the top is 25mph, how many motors are getting burned out on many levels when trying to get to 25mph in 1st gear? Does not seem environmentally friendly on wear, tear, etc....

If this was such an issue - transmissions should have been modified internally. Welded on shift plates...no way those are staying on.

Yes, cost goes up in making stronger mods, may have saved alot of headaches as a result.