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Overheating 'Sambar'

Discussion in 'Subaru Sambar' started by Fay Presto, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. Wendy

    Wendy Member

    I contacted the manufacturers Red Line to learn more about WaterWetter.
    It was invented as a glycol replacement for racing in the US as glycol is banned there. Waterwetter's ability to reduce coolant temperatures by up to 20 degrees is a useful by-product.
    I gather in the UK we generally use 50:50 anti-freeze:water in road cars, but the 50% anti-freeze is way more than is needed to stop freezing and is that high for anti-corrosion. Problem is anti-freeze has no coolant properties so we only have 50% coolant efficiency.
    If Waterwetter is used in road cars in the UK, Redline recommend 75-80% water with 20-25% anti-freeze plus one bottle of WaterWetter. They also suggest it is re-done annually as its properties don't last more than 18 months.
    They think it should be very effective - its also recommended for tow vehicles.
    It retails at £11 a bottle plus VAT and they suggested I ordered from www.opieoils.co.uk (01209 215164) as they offer a discount to motorclub members.
    So I've gone ahead and ordered a couple of bottles and got the discount even though this forum isn't on Opieoils list.
    I'll let you know how effective it is - thanks so much for the tip.
     
  2. Fay Presto

    Fay Presto Member

    As with all things internet, there are groups discussing everything, including the microdetail of cooling stuff.

    Yes there is a forum dedicated to even this. Much of it concerning cooling computers for reasons beyond my comprehension. Some of it, no most of it is not very complimentary. That is why I was hoping for comment from the Subaru Gurus.

    I guess now the car doesn't boil away the coolant thanks to a proper thermostat I will try proper motorcycle coolant first, I'm going to do it now in fact.

    Don't bin the water wetter yet, let's wait for informed comment. I'll try m/c coolant first, which I have just put in and see how mthat goes.
     
  3. Wendy

    Wendy Member

    wouldn't be surprised if m/c coolant has some similar properties to waterwetter as one of the uses of w/w is in m/c's. I'm going to try the w/w as I gather it can't do any harm. We can then compare notes!
     
  4. Fay Presto

    Fay Presto Member

    Here's where the thermostat is, and which two bolts you need to undo to get to it
    The first is the view of the engine bay as you look at it with the cover off looking at the engine, the second is as you peer over the back edge and look straight down into the engine.

    Fay
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Wendy

    Wendy Member

    Wow - thank you. With pictures like that to help, I might consider doing more than just filling her up with petrol!
     
  6. Fay Presto

    Fay Presto Member

    Update.

    First out of town run since filling with motorcycle coolant.

    Whilst not a total solution a definite improvement. I should hope so with £30 of stuff in the radiator.

    A run to Farnham in Hampshire, involving about twenty miles of 'Freeway'. It got quite hot once needing the heater matrix to be called on, (I turned the heater on for a minute) and the temp came down to normal. On the return in heavier traffic no problem.

    It is still not right, I have still not had my 'day of worry free driving' having to watch the temperature like a hawk, but I have raised the speed without overheating another couple of mph.

    fondest
    Fay
     
  7. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    have you ever chemically flushed the cooling system?...seems the rad must be blocked if a tiny heater core being blown over can cool the engine significantly...the heater core basically the same as your rad just smaller...is the fan running in the proper direction?...should suck through the rad not blow on it...just shooting in the dark hoping to hit something:)
     
  8. Fay Presto

    Fay Presto Member

    Fan is working and blowing in the right direction, was the first thing I checked. Ran Radflush for two days and the water in the system runs crystal clear when drained.

    There is evidence the car was used in a hot dusty environment. Not a speck of rust on the car but very dusty in and around the engine bay. The damn radiator is so difficult to get to without a lift or pit. I would like to give it a good blowing out with an airline.

    There is a suggestion that at high temperature the spindle in the water pump is no longer a tight fit and the pump loses efficiency.

    It could be a lower than designed airflow around the rad because of the VW front.

    It might be hoses collapsing at higher speeds.

    An airlock released by the engaging of the heater matrix.

    It might be any, some, all or none of these things.

    Any suggestions including the casting of runes,trips to the oracle or human sacrifices; from the bleeding obvious to the perfectly arcane will receive due consideration!

    fondest

    Fay
     
  9. Fay Presto

    Fay Presto Member

    So, how far have I got?

    Well, a run to Bristol from London, a 300 mile round trip.

    Up to 65 now without incident, 70 on the flat, any slope and back up to his old tricks. A twitch of heater on hot and it is like turning on a tap, the temperature falls straight back to normal.

    Perhaps here is a clue, the fuel consumption is...........terrible; around 25 miles to the gallon. Could this perchance be a timing problem. That is way out of my league. Is there something I should check there?

    fondest, you Subaru gurus,
    fay
     
  10. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    You do realise that there are TWO thermostats in the system right?

    Have you thought about changing the rad cap?

    For $20 it's an easy elimination, rather than checking the over flow/pressure side of the system.

    Just my 2pence
     
  11. Fay Presto

    Fay Presto Member

    did NOT know there are two thermostats!

    Although the thread is titled overheating Sambar it is in fact a Domingo, does that have two? How would a failure in the second affect things? Curiouser and curiouser!

    Are we talking the cap you fill it through at the back a half mile from the radiator, or is there a radiator cap buried somewhere underneath? Would it reduce running temperature?
     
  12. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Yes, the rad cap IS the second themostat and connects the low and hi pressure/temp sides of the system, often forgoten and/or not understood. Depending on the malfunction, gasket crack/ stuck valve and/or empty reservoir, it will cause unpredictable temp swings.

    The pressure cap will have a gizmo under it (spring/seal).

    Not knowing the specific details, it's an easy elimination to change the cap and fill the reservoir to the half way mark, check the tube connection in between the two.
     
  13. Fay Presto

    Fay Presto Member

    Still not clear, forgive my densyosity.

    When we are talking about the 'radiator' cap, are we talking about the filler cap at the back where the water/coolant goes in, or are is there a cap somewhere actually on the radiator?

    the 'Filler' cap looks fine with the springs in good repair, it opens under pressure, but seems to be keeping the system running.

    The reservoir is almost impossible to assess because of the idiot place it has been mounted.

    fondest

    Fay
     
  14. Wendy

    Wendy Member

    As I also have a Domingo with a similar problem, really interested in this.

    I gather there are two places to add coolant - one metal rad cap accessed by opening the back door and one plastic looking one accessed by removing the rear bumber.

    Am I right in thinking we're talking about the cap accessed under the stick out rear bumper? (don't think the Sambar has a stick out bumper like the Domingo).
     
  15. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Fay, I'm going to make this real easy for you to do, since I suggested it.
    You say that the "filler" cap looks in good repair; remember the thermostat you just changed? Didn't it also "look" in good repair? Yet you say it failed a boil test? Hmmm

    If the "filler" cap has a spring and seal "gizmo" on it, then that is the one we are talking about. It controls flow within the co-located hose.

    ""The reservoir is almost impossible to assess because of the idiot place it has been mounted"" This confirmes my thinking, that it has not had proper service to this "end" of the system and that it is "sucking air" if it is doing anything at all. If you can't access the reservoir to fill it; take the flow line off at the "filler" cap location and fill the reservoir from here with a garden hose....just fill it full, and then re-connect the hose, top the "filler" off as well.

    With a changed "filler" cap, and a full reservoir, run the engine up to temp and bleed through the "bleeder screew" again. Coolent overflow will occur at the reservoir untill the system "finds" it's equilibium.

    Good luck
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  16. Fay Presto

    Fay Presto Member

    Maybe, just maybe..........

    A run to Leicester and back from London, a 200 mile round trip, mostly motorway/freeway.

    Drove as fast as was prudent, viscous cross wind, but mostly up around 70mph plus and...

    The temperature gauge stayed at just above the mid point. Can it really have been sorted?

    Now to get the speedo reading a little more more accurately than ten miles an hour slow.
     
  17. Wendy

    Wendy Member

    So what do you think was the key to fixing the problem? The motorbike coolant?

    Genevieve also seems to be running well, after her coolant change with Waterwetter, but her real test will be a run to London next week - especially with the warm weather forecast.

    I guess it will take us both a while to build confidence in them as you can't prove a negative...fingers crossed!
     
  18. Fay Presto

    Fay Presto Member

    I think the coolant, a few decent runs to clear bubbles, a scoop I hung under the car, some vent holes I cut in the front; probably a combination of all these.

    Dobby and Genevieve should meet for a coffee perhaps, We live in Holloway but can travel.......

    Fay
     
  19. Fay Presto

    Fay Presto Member

    Sent you an e-mail,Wendy, did you get it?

    Fay
     
  20. KiwiPal

    KiwiPal New Member

    Hello everyone, I'm a newbie to the forum having just bought a 1997 Subaru Domingo CV Japanese import to the UK (model E-FA7, engine EF12). I'm also having overheating problems, though mine manifests itself when stopping as a bubbling of coolant out of the radiator pressure cap and a hot rubber smell to the rear right-hand side of the vehicle. The temperature gauge seems to sit mid-range whilst driving.
    I asked one of my Japanese friends to translate the warning sign near the radiator pressure cap and he provided the attached translation. My question is this: where exactly is the 'drain hose plug which is in front of spare tyre' as it does not seem obvious to me! Any help of advice gratefully received. Thanks, Ade

    subaru_domingo_cooling_water_sign_japanese.jpg subaru_domingo_cooling_water_sign_translation.jpg
     
  21. Smabarwala

    Smabarwala New Member

    Thanks for the link Url, I got many useful pages from Sambar user manual (BTW they are in Japani but diagrams will work). :)
     

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