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Spaner's FRONT diff-lock solution

Discussion in 'General Truck Info' started by spaner, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    ...


    Well, been chewing this subject over in the brain for quite some time. Distracted by a few other mods and concerns, but now I'm ready to take this on and put something together that is not only reliable, but also WORKS; and causes no ill effects to other components and/or driveability. I want a true 4WD option for my truck.
    While some of the ideas that have been put out there, are innovative, they were ineffective in application, and questionable in causing negitive secondary effects.
    I wasn't going to post anything untill the mod was done, but I thought that maybe one or more of our supporters might take on the R&D for makes and models OTHER than Suzuki, and other owners would benifit.
    My R&D is going well, but I will be completing the system over the winter.


    Well, here is my original (kind of) idea:


    Front Axle Manual Traction Control:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Single rocking control lever. Will work better than a true front locker.

    Feel free to comment. Seems like every extream off-roader out there is looking for a solution that WILL work. but nobody's building anything.

    I guess I like to build, just as much as I like to drive.


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    Attached Files:

  2. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Im with you but I don't see your plan. Trying to figure out how you are going to lock the spider gears with that. Cutting brakes?
     
  3. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Sorry Greg, it's hard for me to tell what amount of detail is obvious.
    Front calipers replaced with calipres that incorporate the e-brake. Think of two e-brake levers, each one controling one wheel braking. Not the control, but good for visual.
    As resistance is applied to one side, torque is applied to the other side.
    You don't have to stop the wheels rotation, just the "free wheel" condition.
    So, if a "free wheel" is rotating at 60 rotations per minute, and it is "resisted" down to 30 rotations per minute...the other (opposit) wheel MUST rotate at 30 rotations per minute.

    Does that explanation help?
     
  4. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    ah. yes. Thats what i meant by cutting brakes. You could use line locks to achieve the same thing but that may be cumbersome with a manual shift tranny. Either way it would be nice for those 2WD burnouts! :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
  5. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Line locks..maybe a "shuttle valve" in the original hydro system would prob work ok.

    I just didn't want to mess with the standard braking system. That's why I was thinking of using the secondary...e-brake control, with a rocking lever.

    What I'm talking about needing it for is like, swamping or extream grades. As soon as you get one of those fronts spinning..dug-in...the whole front end is one big wedge.
    A quick torque transfer, would claw it out of there.
     
  6. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    Just tapping or applying a tiny amount of brake pedal pressure can often do the same to help get unstuck..great with an auto tranny but not much use on a standard..possibly a cable operated (like a motorcycle brake lever) handle mounted on the ebrake...when squeezed with your left hand could manually pull down on the brake pedal...easy enough to engineer and easy to use while driving....excuse my 3 minute paint drawing
     

    Attached Files:

  7. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Excellent solution Fupa!
     
  8. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    That's a good drawing to show what you mean Fupa. I agree that it would help in some way with a situation where you need a little more torque from a free wheeling condition. Especally where the truck is stopped, as braking application to the other three wheels is not a concern, as they are not rotating.
    But, you are also fighting initiation of forward motion with braking and not placing 100%torque at the "non-rotating" front wheel.
     
  9. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Story Time

    I'm going to try and approach this explanation from a different angle.

    First off, let's look at the mechanics of an "open" differential. There is no "clutch like" mechanisim in a diff. 100% of rotation going in, comes out, at one wheel or the other. The spider gears are a "hard" connection and allow for a "ratio-of-rotation" at either of the two wheels. 50-50, 100-0, 0-100, or anywhere in between. A "locker" prevents the spiders from turning inside the diff, preventing the "ratio-of-rotation"; in effect, forcing both wheels to turn at the same rate. Like a solid shaft. An LS system "resists" the "ratio-of-rotation". There are a few more, but the mechanics get more complicated to explain without giving more background. A traction control system works like an "adjustable" LS system, by applying brake resistance to one wheel only, at a time. Resisting the ratio of rotation with unlimited adjustment.

    Story Time, everybody likes a good story.
    Me and my buddy Bert, were sitting at his place, watching the game, sippin brews, puffen leaf and getting right fracked up. Problem was, half time comes around and I find that my buddy has drastically underestimated our brewsky needs for the afternoon. After much debate, we decide the best cource of action is to hop into his Firebird and quickly proqure a few cases down at the local. OK, I says "Only if you take it easy". My buddy smerks, and I know I've made a mistake. Gotta learn to keep my mouth shut.
    First thing out the yard, he lays a patch, and dosen't let off. We're doing 10, but the speedo reads 80..ish. At the end of the block he decides he's going to demo his drifting technique for me, and if I could have stoped time, I would have taken a sec to explain the fact that he is right fracked up, and there's no way he's going to pull this menuver off.
    Next thing I know, we're facing the other way and the right rear wheel is laying on a local lawn orniment. Figure, we spun around hard enough to take the rear wheel off when we hit the curb, but my buddy's brain hasen't down-shifted yet and he's still pumping the gas, going nowhere fast.
    Steeling myself for what's to come, I open the door for my buddy to bring him back to the present. No explanations are needed, we are screewed, proper screewed. Bert survays the scene, in his distrot condition. He knows what's coming now. We're not that far from his place, but far enough. Fines, jail, no car, no beer, and no second half. If I flipped open my phone right now and called for a tow, the cops would still, no doubt, get here first. They always do. Bert's crouched down over at the rear quarter, inspecting his broken studs. Looking back and forth from the car to his dislocated wheel, he says "Can't do noth'en?" To this point I've been holding back, but now; you want me to do something? I get ready to release the wrath of God down upon my buddy, denying any involvement in the situation and walking away, but I can't do it. He's my buddy. Instead, I say "What kind of tools you got?"; expecting a laugh or a head shake. To my disapointment, he walks over, opens the glove compartment, and returns with a 10mm wrench and a pair of lineman plires; handing them to me. I find myself wishing for a screew driver, hidden with in this megar mix, stabing him in his eye at this point would not be unjustified, I tell myself. Counting down from five, I say "Get the tire, and put it in the trunk", and off he goes, like a good little soldier. Nieve he is, and I do the head shaking.
    Moments of clarity don't always come when called for, but when they do come, it's always under a situation of extream stress. A perceptive change in reality, fight or flight, sink or swim, do or die. Mind altering drugs mixed with alcohol also help. This was such a situation. Taking the lineman plires, I crawl under the still elevated left side of the car and cut the brake cable connection to the left wheel, using my newly found super strength, fed partlly by anger, and partlly by fear. Leaning over the driver's seat, I pull the e-brake up as far as possible, and get Bert seated back into the car. "Bert", I say, "Give me a count of ten, to get to the shop and open the doors, then put it in gear and don't stop for nothing". These are instructions Bert can understand, and he nods his head. Running down the sidewalk at full speed, I hear the god awfull racket coming down the street; I know the right guy is at the wheel. I just don't know if I'm going to make the shop doors in time. It dawns on me that I should be running in the opposit direction, as the evidence of our criminality, and it's maker, are hunting me, and then passing me.
    Getting up to the yard, I realise that he's actually done a good job of it. It's half side ways and in the grass, but it's on the property. I can't believe it, and the only evidence of our activities is the white trail in the asfault leading away from the drive way and down the street. Still admiring my buddy's cartoon like sucsess, he gets out of the car and says, "Nat should be home soon, we'll get her to get us a cupp'le cases, cuz I don't think that we should be driving".

    Chapter two: The cops come
     
  10. Scooter

    Scooter Member

    :DI may have wet myself, I may have been lost on most of the front diff lock, but it became strangly clear with the help of your story:p
     
  11. Jester3775

    Jester3775 Member

    sequel request

    Chapter Two, Chapter Two !
    :pop:
     
  12. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Thanks guys, glad that you liked it. A teacher I'm not, but I can write a good story.
     
  13. Little Digger

    Little Digger Member

    Hell of a story !! Kinda forgot the intent of the story, would love to hear chapter two !! STORY TIME
     
  14. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    ...


    So I'm still on the R&D on this little project.

    After months and months of thinking about it and searching for components, I think that I have come up with 3 viable options for a front drive line traction control system.

    #1) Using my original idea of replacing the two front calipers with e-brake cable calipers and mounting a rocking type control lever.
    Total cost for calipers and cables etc., about $500.
    Should work just fine for getting me out of those one front wheel dug in type situations.
    Useless to aid in hill climbing, or avoiding the wheel spin condition in the first place. Static, rather than dynamic. Also, many are using this type of system in the rear for 4x4 pivot maneuvers, and complain of both cable stretch and disconnection on the trail.

    #2) Similar to the first. Cutting brakes.
    CNC has now developed a hydraulic control unit hybrid from the original 424 series. From the 1in 2out, to the 2in 2out line configuration. It is now possible to use this hybrid unit in a front hydraulic caliper set-up. Consisting of a single lever controlling dual shuttle valves. Similar as the above in that it is a solution to a static type situation, but may be more reliable on the trail. Most competition 4x4s are using a dual set-up of the hybrid unit to control any of the 4 points at any time. Also, serves to tractor-walk around corners or even mimic 4wheel steer type set-ups.
    Total cost for one unit and braided lines, about $300

    #3) This is a stand-alone dynamic traction control unit.
    A little know company out of the au has be selling "prototype" units out of the back door for a decade. Haultech has been building units for the competition 4x4 market in that entire time, and has had the web site up stating "coming soon", for about 8 years. No movement into the main stream seems apparent. No one else seems to be remotely interested in developing an after-market stand alone type traction control unit. It consists of a CPU, line controls, air pump, wheel sensors and mounted pick-ups. A true after-market dynamic traction control system.
    A box of prototype components, about $1500

    Still thinking about it. A front locker would be nice, but is not possible for the DD51t. The 3 above choices are what I have come up with, and one of them will be done.

    Just looking for any input, if any of you guys have any experience with any of the above components or configurations, let me know what you think.


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