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89 Acty carb problem

Discussion in 'Honda Acty' started by cameomike, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. cameomike

    cameomike New Member

    Hi Guys, it's been a while since I have posted. And I have a question concerning my 89 Acty. The truck has a second gen carb (and engine) that has only one small solinoid. Recently it has become impossible to start initially. It fires then dies immediately, fires then dies. I removed and cleaned the carb, reinstalled and the problem continues. The carb was relatively clean before blowing out the jets and the one solinoid was free in movement and works electrically. I refired the engine on starting fluid and the engine runs well and stays running which eliminates ignition as a problem. The problem is like it is not getting enough starting gas to maintain the engine running. The truck has always had hesitation off idle and has been cranking longer while warm till it starts. Does anyone have any clues for me as to what to look for and what to test? Any diagrams for this older carb? I think the engines changed some starting in 1990 with changes to the carb.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    Mike
     
  2. shogun

    shogun Active Member

  3. cameomike

    cameomike New Member

    Shogun, I saw your threads, in fact several times. I do not have the solenoid you show being tested on the battery. I do have the one that is long with the thin stinger (plunger) on it and only one wire to the carb. It tested ok. I need to look at all the connections feeding the carb. I finshed cleaning the carb now and will install it after Christmas. I bought the english manual but it had no carb guidance. No diagrams for the carb I have. I think while my truck is a 89, it may have a 88 engine. Thanks Shogun for the reply.
    Mike
     
  4. shogun

    shogun Active Member

  5. cameomike

    cameomike New Member

    Shogun, thanks for the reference. I have considered this part but want for make sure it is bad before I buy. As an update, I have the carb clean and back on the truck. I have tested this choke diapham and it pulls down when vacuum is applied. No vacuum seems to apply when trying to start the truck. The new Danko manual does not describe how the sistem works and the vacuum hose appears to be coming from in front of the motor an near the vapor canister. The truck starts immedately and idles well on starting fluid. The problems that remain are initial start (hot or cold, it fires intantly when cold, then instantly dies) and throttle hesitation (like some accelerartor pump is not giving it extra gas to move up in rpm). This week I plan to explore the area of vapor canister to see if everythings works or hose decay.
     
  6. shogun

    shogun Active Member

    Yes, maybe something wrong with the vapor canister hoses.
    As for problems with hot and cold start I remember from my experience with older BMW (not sure if that also applies to our Honda). My E32 1988/11 750iL has 2 in-tank fuel pumps. On top of the fuel pumps inside the tank is a check valve which keeps the pressure when engine is shut off between tank and fuel injectors / fuel regulator in the engine bay.
    Problems when this check valve is not working:
    in case of hot engine: fuel runs back into the tank from the fuel pressure inside the lines between tank and engine of min 3 bar, this causes vapor bubbles inside the fuel lines inside the engine bay = also called vapor lock, that causes prolems with hot engine start.

    In case the engine is cold and the engine has not been started a long time, the fuel pressure between tank and engine bay is down and it takes a lot of cranking in such case. Usually what we do is to install a small check valve into the line which can handle a pressure of min 3 bar, here is such as installation done on an BMW E34
    http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Trouble/535ihot_start.htm
    Those fuel check valves are available for example on Ebay for around 10-=20$ with various connection diameters.

    Might be good, if someone has a drawing of the Honda Acty vacuum hose system, even a sketch would be helpful like someone has done it here for the BMW
    http://www.nmia.com/~dgnrg/hose_map.jpg
    Often on our BMW's the vacuum hoses are broken in an area which are difficult to detect and even the online parts catalog does not show it, I made a picture of an M30 inline six intake where the vacuum connections from the intakes are shown under the intake, where the red arrow is and the one to the right
    http://s71.photobucket.com/user/shogun_bucket/media/whichhose.jpg.html
    From my experience with the BMW often brittle or broken vacuum hoses cause a lot of trouble, even for fuel tank breather valves etc.
    Of course this is a BMW example but maybe it gives you an idea what to check on your Honda, all vacuum hoses.
    Keep us informed.
     
  7. cameomike

    cameomike New Member

    Hey Shogun, yesterday spent some time under the truck looking at parts or fuel/ emissions system. Found a component box/ container with two vac hoses coming from the motor ( choke control diaphram you referred to). I removed the box from under the bed (it had two wires from the solanoid and two vac. hoses) took it apart. Inside the container was a really clean solanoid and a regulator. In one of the small hoses leading from the sol to the regulator there was some gunk like light grease build up (kind of like black vasoline). Did a slightmechanical clean out and put it together. I tried to start the truck and it started almost immediately. The package of parts is depicted on page 114 of the Danko manual at the top and is called the Emission Control Box. Soon I remove the box again to clean (flush) the internal hoses more completely.
    I have not found the vapor canister yet located above the air filter but see two vacuum hoses going or coming from the area behind the motor. The truck still has a throttle response problem.
     
  8. shogun

    shogun Active Member

    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  9. cameomike

    cameomike New Member

    Shogun, I removed and checked the Emission Control Box again and took a few pictures. The hoses internally in the box were very clean so I put it back together an she started right up. However, when I disconnected one of vacuum hoses from the pipes coming from the bottom of the carb a small amount of gas came out. One of the pics is a diagram of vac hoses from under the engine cover,another shows the box mounted on the bed bottom in front of the engine, a carb picture and the internals of the box (solinoid and vacuum diaphram View attachment 13045 View attachment 13046 View attachment 13047 View attachment 13048
     
  10. shogun

    shogun Active Member

    Can't see the pics, when I click on the attachments it says: Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator.

    Maybe you try one of the free picture uploads like imageshack, dropbox, photobucket etc.
    Not sure about that vacuum hose when the small amount of gas comes out, but from my experience with diaphragms it means there is a diaphragm is broken. I had same symptoms on my fuel regulator on my old BMW.

    Unfortunately so far I have not yet disassembled an Acty carb completely, only replaced the solenoid valves for air, but for sure will do in the future to get a better understand of it.

    Here someone in Japan disassembed a HA-4 carb and one can see a diaphragm
    http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/kurumanosentakuya/archive/2012/3/25
    http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/kurumanosentakuya/51811442.html
     
  11. cameomike

    cameomike New Member

    Shogun, I found out this truck is a model HA2 and ordered a rebuilt carb from Yokohama Motors. No replacement parts available for this earlier carb but the two available rebuilt carbs have all new seals, gaskets and diaphrams. Looks like replacement parts for the HA2 model are scarce. I am sure the ethanol gas here ruined the rubber inside the old carb. I will be using etoh free gas from now on.
    Thanks for your help,
    Mike
     
  12. cameomike

    cameomike New Member

    I found the problem, the ignition switch internals were dirty causing the motor to initially start then not continue to run. Took the switch apart and hosed out the guts with contact cleaner. Now runs perfect. Looks like Honda used this switch on some Accords and Acura Integras in the late 90s. As the switch is no longer available for the Acty it will be a good option if I need it. I am learning that the Actys are scarce compared to other makes and especially the earlier HA2.
    Thanks to Shogun and OldMachinist for your help.
     
  13. shogun

    shogun Active Member

    Thanks for the feedback, good to know what was the problem.
     

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