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My Suzuki Carry Build Thread <> REINVENTING THE WHEEL <> The Mini-Mog

Discussion in 'Suzuki Carry' started by LCCRUISER, Apr 15, 2014.

  1. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    Rather than keep posting willy nilly all over the site, I decided I would just consolidate all my experiences with my little truck into a single build thread. Maybe some of you can learn from me and, hopefully, I will learn from you as we go. Forgive me from running off at the mouth at times, I tend to get carried away with the written word.

    This saga starts on March 3, 2014. That's when I kept my hand up one bid longer than anyone else at a local auction. I actually had my eyes on the Mini-Mog since it first appeared in the auctioneer's parking lot last October. Periodic inquiries as to when it would be sold were always met with the same answer, "as soon as the paper work clears from the estate". Well, that took almost 6 months, but in the end, the little truck was mine. With a little under 42,000 kilometers on the clock (<26K miles), the truck is in great shape mechanically and completely rust free. Even the exhaust and brake lines are rust free which is a miracle for vehicle here in the Northeast.

    Since the truck had been previously registered and passed the state's annual safety inspection, I was also able to get it registered for the road and stickered. Unfortuately, it didn't take long to determine that the truck had 3 glaring faults: 1. A dying starter. 2. A serious death wobble that appeared at anything over about 50-55 KPH on a smooth road and about 10 KPH less than that if I hit a bump. 3. The front of the truck bottoms out too easily on bumps, even on pavement.
     

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  2. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    Fixing the Starter - The Mitsubishi Connection

    The starter burnt up while doing a little off roading. I had to muscle the truck over some rough terrain to get it faced downhill on a logging trail where I could get it rolling fast enough to jump start it.

    Some call me cheap, but I prefer frugal. Must be the NH Yankee upbringing. In any case, I wasn't about to pay $300 for a new starter or fork over $200 for a rebuilt one either.

    I was able to cross reference the numbers on my starter and found a new replacement on eBay for a little under $165 with shipping along with a couple others for $15-60 more. It was described as new and it looks brand new and it only took 3 days to arrive from Georgia. The numbers on my old starter are 31100-70D50 and M002T13181. Although I believe this is the original starter that came with the truck, it cross references as follows: "Replaces Part Numbers & Specifications Mitsubishi M002T13181, M002T13181ZC, M2T13181ZC, M2T49581 Suzuki 31100-70D50". The seller also listed it as being for a Cushman Turf Truckster Haulster Spraytek. The seller's User ID is rareelectrical.

    The new starter fits my application perfectly and turned my hard starting engine into a willing cranker that starts easily even in 0 F. weather. At some point, I will probably have the old starter rebuilt locally. It's always handy to have spares, especially if your plans include some off-roading which can be very hard on electrical and other components.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  3. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    Hither, Thither & Yon - Curing the Death Wobble

    From my readings, many have been afflicted with the clunk and shimmy, especially on lifted vehicles. There have been some fixes that worked and some that don't. So far mine don't.

    As previously mentioned, my little truck has death wobble. It was serious in the beginning and has become even more serious after my first atttempt at a cure. The vehicle shakes violently and I often expect to be thrown off the road or see some parts of the truck in the rear view mirror. Maybe even a front tire passing me. Once I get it below 40KPH, it smooths right out.

    As an aside, the truck had a note for an alignment appointment in the glove box that I presume was done after it was lifted about 2". The truck tracks true down the road until I hit a bump or exceed the limit where the wobble initiates itself. I don't suspect it is out of alignment and the camber appears to be OK.

    I had a friend crank the steering wheel while I observed the steering linkages. It is pretty obvious that the center arm is being deflected back and forth with every crank of the steering wheel. Once in the air, I can also turn either tire side to side by hand without immediately creating movement in the opposite side.

    Being a noobie on the forum and lacking access to pictures and links during the first few days of my membership, I ignored my Yankee roots and shot from the hip. (Hey, I was anxious to drive the truck at something over a speed that made me a traffic obstruction.) I ordered a new center arm bushing for $74 including shipping from a vendor. It seemed like the thing to do. I had the local shop press out the old and press in the new, another $22. Replacing the bushing revealed an immediate issue. The replacement was made of thinner steel with a lot more rubber. It weighed about half as much as my original. Cross referencing the numbers led me to a Chinese source for the replacement, just as I expected. Oh, the pain of feeling taken!

    The pain worsened when I reassembled my steering and took it for a test ride. Initially, it seemed better as I got it to nearly 80KPH before the shimmy began. Within only a few miles of driving, however, that speed threshold has dropped back to under 60. Worse yet, the wobble is even more violent than before. Rechecking play by having a friend turn the steering wheel reveals that the center arm deflects even further than it did before.

    I have been contemplating Spaner's brass bushing fix or the bearing fix I've seen in another thread. The old bushing showed some deterioration of the rubber. The inner sleeve was also not centered within the outer bushing, especially on the end that lacks the flange. Yesterday, I kept staring at my old OEM bushing and a thought dawned on me. If the problem is the worn rubber, why not just eliminate that issue? Wouldn't it be possible to weld a bead around each end of the old bushing to connect the inner sleeve to the outer? While playing around I even managed to take it apart.

    Not giving up on the solid bushing idea, I headed down to a local machine shop. The owner said he could make me a solid steel bushing for about $60, maybe half that in quantities of 50-100. That isn't exactly the frugal solution I had in mind. Having a bronze or brass insert made was likely to cost even more he said, something to do with the price of copper. I left with the idea of breaking out the welder. As luck had it, I ran into an old friend who is a shop teacher at a large high school. I showed him the part and jokingly asked if he had a metal lathe. Surprise, they have 6 at school and he has a senior looking for a project for a class or 2. I left my old part with him and he said that I might have a solid stainless steel center arm bushing back within a couple days. If so, I can't wait to try it and will report back.
     

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  4. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    One weakness of these trucks is the low spring rate and lack of travel. This is especially noticeable on bumpy roads and off road. I have yet to find a solution for lengthening travel. The design of the strut and its short length just don't allow for adding a longer spring that will also allow a longer stroke with more travel. Maybe someone will find a strut that allows for a longer spring and the subsequent increase in travel.

    In the meantime, I need to fix my bottoming out problem before something breaks or bends. The quick solution seems to be the AFCO 10" springs. My combined passenger cargo weight is as much as 400 pounds or more. I also plan to add skidplating, a sturdier bumper and a winch. Since the modifications will add weight well in front of the wheels, I felt I needed to go stiffer on the springs than some have chosen and have ordered new ones in a 275 pound rate.

    Shopping around, I found them at Summit in chrome (bling, bling) for only $44.99 each, cheaper than the yellow by $15 apiece. . http://www.summitracing.com/parts/afc-23275cr/overview/

    I should have them in time to install over the weekend. Depending on how long they are compared to my old springs will determine as to whether or not I will remove the spacers from the top of the struts. I do plan on fabbing up a hunibar at some point, but that is probably further away time wise than I'd like it to be. Removing the spacers may also help my front end wobble as well. Time will tell.
     

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  5. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Great Thread! Keep it coming.
     
  6. Jim Nelson

    Jim Nelson Active Member

    I put those same springs in the 250# model on my Scrum and they raised it about 2" and improved the ride and handling a bunch.
     
  7. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    Thanks for the input men. Can't wait to get the parts and the time to do it.
     
  8. Arcticmini

    Arcticmini Member

    I put the exact same springs on and made a huge difference. I could compress the old springs by hand. Now I don't rub my 25's on the front so much.
     
  9. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    I decided to do the springs today. Piece of cake, right?

    I measured my current height for a base line (I have 1.5" spacers in the front). I measured from the ground to the bottom edge of the wheel wells. I was 27" on the passenger side and just over 26.5 on the driver's side.

    005.JPG 003.JPG
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  10. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    Jacked the truck and removed the passenger side wheel/tire. I put a jack under the A-arm and held it up while I unbolted the 3 top nuts on top of the wheel well. Let off on the jack and the whole strut popped right out. I removed the 3 bolts holding the spacer and took that off.

    007.JPG 008.JPG 009.JPG 010.JPG 015.JPG
     
  11. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    I then reinstalled the strut and removed the large center nut from the top of the strut. I let the jack down and everything came apart nicely. The spring and all its attachments could now be removed.

    016.JPG 018.JPG 019.JPG

    Lots of dirty parts. The dirt on the strut seemed oily. I suspect that it may be leaking from being bottomed out hard so much. I will have to consider replacement at some point, but I'm too anxious to get the new springs in to worry about that now. Plus I still want to see if a longer strut could be a future option. The strut seems to dampen OK when cycled. no gurgling or erratic changes in damping. However, it is much easier to compress than expand.

    026.JPG 025.JPG 027.JPG

    Honestly, I can't believe how easily and quickly it went.

    Reminder, if you are doing this yourself, these springs are under tension while installed on the strut. Never attempt to remove the top center nut on the strut unless the top of the strut is either installed with enough tension applied from below by a jack or through the use of spring compressors. The tension must be released slowly or the spring could fly off the strut violently and cause injury.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  12. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    New bling!

    021.JPG 022.JPG 023.JPG 028.JPG

    After rereading some of the posts on this type of installation, I decided not to cut the springs. On the Carry, the original springs are are round all the way to the tips like a pigtail. The new springs are ground to be flat across top and bottom. The strut cups top and bottom have a built in taper to accept the pigtail. The new springs don't fit exactly flush in these cups. Other users have said that the springs will bow a bit after installation but they consider the amount negligible and unlikely to create a problem.

    024.JPG

    I did find that the spring was a bit to small on the inside to go all the way down over the bottom strut cup. The strut cup has a recess inside the rim with a raised middle to center and hold the spring at the bottom. I used a grinder to take a little off the inside rim of the bottom coil and that allowed it to settle into the cup a bit better.
     
  13. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    It went so easy coming apart I figured it would only take about 15 minutes to get the new spring and strut jacked back up into place and bolted down. NOT!

    The first problem I encountered occurred as I was jacking the unit into place to compress the spring. It seems the center shaft of the strut had slowly compressed itself and the threaded portion was now nowhere near fully extended. Wrapping a piece of wire around the threaded end allowed me to pull up the shaft and hold it up while jockeying the top parts into position under the fender well.

    The second problem was that the upper part of the strut assembly tended to go inboard as the strut was jacked which meant the shaft was well away from coming up through the hole in the fender well. I was able to use a pry bar to maneuver the strut outboard enough to center the bolt at the bottom of the hole.

    The third problem I encountered was that the spring would not compress more than about an an inch. This left me with nearly an inch to go to allow enough of the shaft to go up inside the upper assembly so I could cinch it down with the nut and washer assembly. The entire weight of that corner of the truck was supported by the jack under the A-arm. I even tried applying my 200+ pounds to that corner of the truck without any affect.

    With a 275 pound spring rate, I need about 550 pounds to compress the spring 2". I figured that each front corner of the truck should be around that, so I don't understand why it won't compress more than an inch.

    After multiple attempts, I headed off to AutoZone to borrow a strut spring compressor. Unfortunately, their compressor has bulky hooks that don't fit within the coils without interfering with the strut.

    After such a frustrating conclusion, I decided to go for a ride on my new to me 1984 Honda CT110 Trail bike. I'm still recovering from a virus that has left me very weak, so this might have not been a good idea. With little strength in my legs and arms, I managed to dump the bike and me 4 times, twice with some pain and one of those with my leg trapped under the little machine. In my dilapidated state, it was a chore to extract myself. I did manage to avoid dumping it in the middle of a beaver overflow that had flooded the road and disguised a large rock under 18" of water, but I did fill my boots with water.

    This was my first outing on the bike off road and I'm wondering if I should just sell it or give it another chance. It was muddy with loose rocks and it's been years since I have ridden in those conditions. Maybe I'm not the athlete I was 20 years ago? My wife would just call it Karma. Either way, I have more aches and pains than I had earlier in the day.

    Tomorrow I will try to find a more suitable spring compressor. I would consider buying one that works as I anticipate doing this type of project on more than one occasion while getting the suspension the way I want. Does anyone know of a source? I will also see if there is another way I can compress the spring without putting the whole thing up into position in the top of the fender well.

    Manana
     
  14. Jim Nelson

    Jim Nelson Active Member

    I bought a pair of the Tekton 5737 from Amazon for I think $17 and after a bunch of grinding and cutting they work real well. I've done my Scrum and Hijet and my son's Carry as well as another Hijet. They are pretty beefy so you can really butcher them without losing much strength.
     
  15. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Man, have you got it bad; the sickness...:pop:

    Just take it easy, lots'o motivation to be found from your truck. Don't take such big bites dude, Make-It-Last...:p
    Draw it out, it'll keep you motivated for a long time, and good times to be had in the long term,

    Your current concern is small, a simple "ratchet-strap" set-up will fix you up.

    http://www.ratchetstraps.info/ratchet-strap-instructions

    Two per spring...per installation-SIDE will do the job for the installation procedure that you are doing. Just enough to get the job done, just that 1/2" that you need to pull it all together, in just the way that you are doing it.
    10 bucks, at the local hardware store.

    I Understand the dedication, I Like the pics, I Love the thread...;)

    You got it right already,
    Reaserch the OP beforhand,
    Figure out what it is that you want to do, to get the result that was talked about or flaunted beforhand.
    Mull it over for a while,
    Order the parts and then wait.

    Discovery is still to be had no matter the planning.
    I think you are there via a simple set of ratchet straps, but just goes to show, how much fun there still is in there. In a modded system that seems to be heralded as the way to go for a result that is flaunted as complete.

    A lift, a ride, a fix, but you still have to use your brain and your skills, just for this simple swap.
    Even more satisfaction in the result than you thought...:cool:

    NB, most HAVE-NOT cut the springs, good choice.:p
     
  16. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    Thanks for the input guys!

    Spaner, I tried the ratchet straps, but the hooks on all mine are too big and the end that is fixed to the lever mechanism is too long. Perhaps I need to use the ratchet without the looks, just the strap? Studying your link and I'll try that shortly.

    You don't know the half of it. Unfortunately, there are lots of more demanding projects sitting on the back burner. The clock is ticking and my other half is just ticked. I can't say as I blame her. I just want this up and running so I can drive it over a bump without loosing a tooth and down the road at 50 or so without wobbling off into the weeds.

    OK, so who is spreading the bad word about my being impatient anyway? I can't wait to get my hands on them! ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
  17. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    I've found that just using the strap by itself without the hooks works well because of the length restrictions you are talking about. Pull some of the strap through the slot in the ratchet, then through the spring then back through the slot in the ratchet. Do this on both sides of the spring.
     
  18. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

  19. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    I figured out that it must be ratchet straps without hooks as there was no way to use a strap that has them. I went to 3 places and found this many for sale - 0. Everyone has ratchet straps with hooks just like the dozen plus I already own.

    SO, I spent $35 at the local Advance Auto Parts and bought one of these. http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/autocraft-strut-coil-spring-compressor-ac838-w80555/9020066-P

    001.JPG

    It actually works quite well. Heavy duty components and I liked the safety factor of having ubolts holding onto the springs instead of hooks that can slip.

    002.JPG

    I finally wound up taking the coil out and compressing it off the strut. Easier to work on the compressor adjusters and to keep everything squared up. Once I got it compressed enough for the threaded part of the shaft to go up through the cup into the fender well, I used the strut top nut to pull it up snug and that gave me all the extra I needed. I backed the nut off, added the washers and snuged it all down.

    The springs are 10" and I compressed them to about 8.5". That doesn't seem like much, but it's a lot of tension on the tool and the spring. 1.5 X 275 = 412.5 LBs Not sure I would want anything with that much tension shot at me. Glad the tool is sturdy.

    003.JPG 004.JPG 006.JPG
     
  20. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    OK Larry, so how did it work? Hmmmm, good question dear readers.

    Honestly, I would have to say that it not only didn't work nearly as well as I had hoped, it is even worse than before in most respects.

    I took it down the road, all paved with a few receding frost heaves. Warmer weather has relieved the frost from the ground and the bumps are getting smaller. Twelve miles round trip, all agony. The death wobble is even worse if that is possible. I can't stop the wobble until I drop below 30 KPH, it was 40 before. It starts on any bump at over 40 KPH. I can get just about to 60 on the smooth, but God forbid if it starts at that speed as you will need two firm hands on the wheel and a firm foot on the brake to get it under control.

    There is now a lot of rattling and squeeking in the front, particularly on the passenger side. It is also noisy when I back up, CV's binding?

    The steering doesn't want to center as well as it did before. It also feels like it wants to run over the outside tire when you turn sharply or quickly. Like that tire is tucking under if you will.

    On the plus side, it doesn't bottom out on bumps. However, it is a bit boingy, if you know what I mean. I expected it probably would be since I based the rate of the springs on carrying 2 passengers and additional weight on the front from future mods I have planned.

    I had a 1.5" spacer lift and about 27" at the wheel wells, these springs add just a hair over that in height, maybe an 1/8 to a 1/4 depending on the side. That's a positive. I was hoping that the stance would be the same.

    Negative camber. My camber before appeared pretty neutral. Now it is obviously positive.

    007.JPG

    That splains a lot of my prior observations, eh? Rolling over the outside tire in a turn, not returning to center as easily, DEATH wobble. Maybe even the CV angles?

    SO, now what?

    At least the spacer that was on it before did provide more height while maintaining somewhat proper camber. No doubt due to the offset mounting at the top mount. Should I have retained the spacers with the new springs? If so, wouldn't I then have twice the amount of lift and even more CV angle issues? Maybe I should keep the spacers and drop down to a 200 or 225 pound spring.


    All this now makes my head wobble as much as my steering. I haven't seen my High School teacher friend in a week and I need that new center arm bushing he promised me to help eliminate the wobble.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
  21. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    MORE TRAVEL!

    I know I'm jumping ahead of myself and your potential replies to my prior posts.

    In any case, has anyone taken the stock OEM spacer off the top of the strut and bolted the unit up with the spring directly connected to the part that secures it to the fenderwell? I would thank that if that stock spacer comes out, one could add another 1-2" longer spring and gain some travel in the suspension.

    Am I getting too far outside the box or should I be put into one?
     
  22. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    When I started this mod I got the 275lb springs. I still think that was a bit much but I also added approx. 100lbs of bumper and winch. On top of that my truck is larger and heavier than the older models. Then I saw guys going to 300lb springs! With the combination of extra weight I still think it was the right choice. I run 200lb springs in the front and 125 in the rear now but I have 6" of travel with the coil-overs. Im thinking that I could use about a 225 and it would be perfect (oddly enough since the originals were 215). You'll be much happier when you starting loading it down with some sweet HD stuff like I know you are going to do!!!
     
  23. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    I replaced the new springs with the old ones yesterday. I guess the aggravated death wobble and the struts being fully topped out wasn't kind to the
    struts. Both are officially blown with more oil leaking out of them than coming through the Keystone Pipeline.

    The 275's add the same lift as the stock springs with spacer but don't compensate for the camber like the spacers do. I should have thought that through. The heavier springs require a drop like the Hunibar or something to get the A-Arm spaced down and to relieve the angle on the CV's.

    While I had the springs out, I measured the shaft travel on the strut. Should have written it down, but I think it is 6.25", or was that 4.25"? Honestly, I think the real travel with a spring installed is more likely around 4". That's pathetic for off road use. You would want at least 6" on any atv with 8" more optimal. In order to achieve that, we have to get a taller strut and a longer spring installed. A 12" spring is a good baseline and because it allows more travel, the spring rate can be lower. So, where do we get a longer strut? Anybody know?

    I didn't buy this truck to be a project from the get go, but I have no problem making it one in the near future. I just have other more pressing stuff to get done first. Unless I can find a source for a taller strut, my initial idea is to just get 2 stock struts and some 200-225 pound springs and run those with the spacers.

    Before that, I'm still working on the wobbly center arm. If I can't get this truck to at least 60mph on the road without a terminal death wobble, all the other stuff is just a pipe dream.

    At some point I want to add a longer CV shaft assembly which would improve angles. That would necessitate a longer A-Arm.
     
  24. Jim Nelson

    Jim Nelson Active Member

    When you are doing your spring shopping watch Speedway as they have garage sale items all the time and I bought a pair of Afcos a while back for $29.95 each. Keep us up dated on the struts.
     
  25. WestEndAngler

    WestEndAngler Member

  26. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    I've read your entire build thread. Very impressive and my hat's off to you! I was sorry to see you rolled your truck as I got toward the end. I would like to avoid that as I did that in my Rock Crawling rig last year. A full roll (I was told it was a double) all the way back onto the tires. Not fun at all and that rig is for sale if anyone is interested.

    Whether I stick with IFS or go solid like you did, I know I want lots of flex and travel. Having recently gotten into quads and having test driven a RAZR this Spring, I enjoy being able to cover a lot of rough terrain without doing so at a snails pace. That is typically what my experience has been with the rigs I own now or have owned in the past. They are capable on very difficult technical stuff, but you can't get there from here very quickly.

    I just want a mini that works well on the road and can cover some rough trails in relative comfort. Right now that is not the case at all.
     
  27. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    I actually have read your build thread. Cool truck. I bet it works well with those tires off road.

    I have a set of ATV tires for mine, but they don't work well on the road, especially at road legal speeds. Plus they aren't DOT rated. They make SS Boggers seem tame LOL.

    Unfortunately, I need to do something different suspension wise to handle the rough terrain around here. I'd like to see a set of 10.5X31X15 under one of these trucks somehow. At least a 9X30 like an old Flattie Jeep.
     
  28. LCCRUISER

    LCCRUISER Member

    Been away from the forum and working on the mini way too long. Once the snow melted some around the time of my last post we were able to drive into the Camp every weekend with the FJCruiser towing our 4wheelers. A month or so after that we bought a side by side ATV - Polaris Ranger 570 MidSize. Nice machine. Hunting season is done and the Camp is pretty much closed up for the winter except for maybe one or two snow runs, so life is back to normal at home.

    As you have seen in my prior posts, a shop teacher friend's student was in the process of making me a new bushing out of stainless steel. That didn't work out as the bushing wasn't true to size throughout and wobbled a bit on the pivot stem. It also had a very rough surface on the inside that would be in contact with the trucks pivot stem. I figured that would be a problem without any way to lube it and decided not to use the part.

    I've now decided to go with the 5 bearing solution and ordered 11 of them up tonight to take advantage of an extra discount and free shipping offer by the supplier. I bought the extras in case I screwed them up while honing them or the old bushing housing. The deal I have going the supplier should let me be able to "redistribute" the extras pretty cheap, around $20 for 5 with shipping in the US.

    Cold weather and working outside will slow me down for awhile, but I'm anxious to be up and running again soon.
     
  29. RuggedCraig

    RuggedCraig New Member

    I was told the wobble can be cured wit steering damper?? Thoughts
    95 Suzuki carry 2" lift wobble at 70km
     
  30. calhollings

    calhollings New Member

    Thats what fixed my "death rattle".
     

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