Epa News Cold Hard Facts

**canadian1** · 11-07-2008, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by mc22958

Both of the EPA and DOT guidelines were adopted by the government to protect the citizens. These rules were adopted and enacted, on the federal level, by the congress. If you do not like them then talk to your congressmen/women. Personally I like the safety and EPA guidelines that have taken place. It has not only made the air cleaner but the roads we travel safer. As a firefighter I have seen more than my fair share of accidents. The cars safety equipment in todays cars is fantastic. The Kia trucks have little to none of this safety equipment that is required for todays cars and trucks. If you drive your Kia on the road not only are you taking your life in your own hand but also somebody Else's. (I am not a lawyer or play one on TV) On a legal note if you are driving your Kia on the road and cause an accident you may be a lot more liable than you realize. And that insurance you think you have, may not cover you. It may be easy for the insurance company to get out of the claim. Why do you want to expose yourself and your family to that?

thank you; you are right on track. i to am a 38 year firefighter veteran.

**mc22958** · 11-07-2008, 06:59 PM

Lets play devils advocate for a sec. You are driving your mini truck on the road and by somebody Else's fault you are in an accident. (you were driving defensively and were blind-sided) Since your truck doesn't have air bags you hit your head on the windshield. The at fault drivers insurance is bare bones and you were hurt pretty bad. Your hospital bills go beyond the insurance coverage and you are out of work for weeks. Well, you have a good insurance company and it picks up the difference. You now go out and buy another truck and motor happily down the road, besides having that slight persisting pain in your neck. (embellishing I know)
Now who lost here? Well you did. Most probably your insurance will go up since they had to pay out. You lost your truck and had to get another one,and with the new regs, it ended up costing you more.
But it also cost me. The rescue vehicles that responded and transported you to the hospital cost money. If your county doesn't recoup that amount from the insurance company, or you, then the taxpayers pay for it. (If you were in a better equipped auto you might have refused transport because you wouldn't be hurt) This accident will be registered in the data base at the insurance companies. If they determine that accident injury rates in your area are higher then they may raise rates across the board for everybody. Now everybody's insurance goes up.
Now lets say you didn't have insurance and you turned out to be a paraplegic. (I pray this doesn't happen) You now cant work and go on disability. Now the taxpayers are paying for that too.
As you can see it is to everybody's benefit to have the most up to date safety equipped vehicles on the road. We do not live in a bubble, each to our-selfs. Our actions and those of others effect all of us.

I am not saying you shouldn't drive your truck on the road but you should be aware that your actions, or lack of such, may effect others.

**Timetripper** · 11-07-2008, 07:29 PM

So anything smaller than a Hummer H2 should'nt be on the road by that logic and along with any older vehicle that does not have air bags and don't forget the motocycles while were cleaning things up.

I have never smoked either so maybe we should get rid of all the smokers who end up getting sick and cost us money as well [I am being totally sarcastic BTW]

Seriously though
I thought that was one of the cornerstones of democracy - being able to do things "freely" and being able to agree to disagree with out fear of being locked up by the government for your views.

I have never owned and probably never will own a motorcycle but don't mind at all the people who ride them or the freedom and enjoyment they get from them and likewise with anyone who owns and drives a kei truck on either side of the border on-road.

After having read through most of the posts on this "EPA" subject the only thing I think would be fair [?] is if they [government] collected the 25% duty that would have been charged if they were brought in as on-road vehicles in the first place but it is a messy situation all the way around with no easy answers IMO

**mc22958** · 11-07-2008, 07:48 PM

Timetripper, No the simple logic is that the mini trucks do not have the safety equipment the other vehicles on the road, year compared to year, are required to have. Not to mention the EPA guidelines.

**Timetripper** · 11-07-2008, 08:06 PM

Most early 90's vehicles don't have airbags I know my 1992 Ford E-350 doesn't.
I know here in Canada if it wasn't for a certain lobby group I could drive a newer kei truck
with ABS and Airbags but the newest you can bring in is 15 yrs or older and none of that technology was available on a '91

**gregw98** · 11-07-2008, 11:08 PM

Timetripper, No the simple logic is that the mini trucks do not have the safety equipment the other vehicles on the road, year compared to year, are required to have. Not to mention the EPA guidelines.

Maybe true, but they are still safer than 2 wheel and 3 wheel motorcycles.

I said this before, but how is it that you can build a 32 Ford Hot Rod with a Chevy engine and no pollution stuff and it can be totally street legal. I truly beleive that lobbist are 100% behind this whole new 'crackdown'.

**myazel** · 11-08-2008, 06:56 AM

As stated earlier I have been in Fire/Rescue over 30 years and there is no doubt new cars are much safer and eveiormentally freindly than they were twenty years ago. That however does not mean we send every vehicle more than two years old to the crusher. A few hundred thousand Minis running around this country should be the least of our worries. Over half of the accidents we work each year someone involved is not legal, no license, no insurance or not a citizen of this country. Get the drunks off of the road even just ones without licenses would help and then the illegals and then we can talk. Some guy running around in a mini between farms is the least of my worries. The kids running 100 mph at 1 am on Saturday morning in a 3 ton double cab truck are the guys I am getting real tired of cleaning up after. Look at real statistics before you start speaking and you will have your eyes opened to the real problems that Police and Rescue face instead of the ones dreamed up by our polititions.

**gregw98** · 11-08-2008, 07:10 AM

Amen, Myazel.

**Timetripper** · 11-08-2008, 08:40 AM

Nice post myazel

**jtpc** · 11-08-2008, 02:19 PM

Well spoken, Myazel.

And as a side note, I believe the later model Honda Actys have 2 airbags.
And my subaru has one for the driver.

Not too bad. And these little guys do have seat belts, as someone mentioned, overall are safer than motorcycles. (plus these little guys won't be caught going 100+MPH as most motorcycles do so quickly without getting caught around here)
So keeping these little trucks slower (55mph and less) definitely reduces their chances of a high-speed collision.

**Timetripper** · 11-08-2008, 03:24 PM

jtpc, Does your '01 have ABS brakes?

**dmerc** · 11-08-2008, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by mc22958

Lets play devils advocate for a sec. You are driving your mini truck on the road and by somebody Else's fault you are in an accident. (you were driving defensively and were blind-sided) Since your truck doesn't have air bags you hit your head on the windshield. The at fault drivers insurance is bare bones and you were hurt pretty bad. Your hospital bills go beyond the insurance coverage and you are out of work for weeks. Well, you have a good insurance company and it picks up the difference. You now go out and buy another truck and motor happily down the road, besides having that slight persisting pain in your neck. (embellishing I know)
Now who lost here? Well you did. Most probably your insurance will go up since they had to pay out. You lost your truck and had to get another one,and with the new regs, it ended up costing you more.
But it also cost me. The rescue vehicles that responded and transported you to the hospital cost money. If your county doesn't recoup that amount from the insurance company, or you, then the taxpayers pay for it. (If you were in a better equipped auto you might have refused transport because you wouldn't be hurt) This accident will be registered in the data base at the insurance companies. If they determine that accident injury rates in your area are higher then they may raise rates across the board for everybody. Now everybody's insurance goes up.
Now lets say you didn't have insurance and you turned out to be a paraplegic. (I pray this doesn't happen) You now cant work and go on disability. Now the taxpayers are paying for that too.
As you can see it is to everybody's benefit to have the most up to date safety equipped vehicles on the road. We do not live in a bubble, each to our-selfs. Our actions and those of others effect all of us.

I am not saying you shouldn't drive your truck on the road but you should be aware that your actions, or lack of such, may effect others.

That could be said of ANTHING. A rider on a horse, kid on a skateboard....toddler on a tricyle, anything where your actions could cause someone to swerve and hit a tree, or another car.

We have Amish around my area, and they'll be riding home in their buggies in the middle of the night, pitch black, with only a small flashing light on back. I've come close to plowing into 'em several times.

Ya' just gotta' let folks lead their life, and hope for the best.

Accidents WILL happen, but having ridden motorcycles for almost 40 years, I've never wrecked onroad, and I know why......with no safety equipment, you've GOT TO BE CAREFUL!! I drive my Carry the same way......I know if I hit something hard,and headon, my legs/feet are in real trouble, most likely Gone!

THAT, makes me VERY careful!!

**jtpc** · 11-08-2008, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by dmerc

That could be said of ANTHING. A rider on a horse, kid on a skateboard....toddler on a tricyle, anything where your actions could cause someone to swerve and hit a tree, or another car.

We have Amish around my area, and they'll be riding home in their buggies in the middle of the night, pitch black, with only a small flashing light on back. I've come close to plowing into 'em several times.

Ya' just gotta' let folks lead their life, and hope for the best.

Accidents WILL happen, but having ridden motorcycles for almost 40 years, I've never wrecked onroad, and I know why......with no safety equipment, you've GOT TO BE CAREFUL!! I drive my Carry the same way......I know if I hit something hard,and headon, my legs/feet are in real trouble, most likely Gone!

THAT, makes me VERY careful!!

Very true.

**mc22958** · 11-08-2008, 06:16 PM

Boy I am getting beat up here... The only point I have is to know your options and the possible consequences of your actions. After you know these then you can make a well informed decision. That is it. Personally I drive a Jeep with a very good winch bumper, front air bags, side air bags, ABS, traction control, stability control and more.....

Accidents are called accidents because that is what they are.

**dmerc** · 11-08-2008, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by mc22958

Boy I am getting beat up here... The only point I have is to know your options and the possible consequences of your actions. After you know these then you can make a well informed decision. That is it. Personally I drive a Jeep with a very good winch bumper, front air bags, side air bags, ABS, traction control, stability control and more.....

Accidents are called accidents because that is what they are.

I have a Jeep too, an 08 Unlimited 4dr. I've driven it twice in the last 6 months. I ALWAYS take my Bandit everywhere. But, the 5am trips to work are getting mighty chilly!

I had planned on driving the Carry as often as possible, but with gas under $2 again, I reckon I should get the Jeep out, and blow the cobwebs out.

BTW, Didn't mean to beat you up, just saying that if you think worse case scenario, you can imagine a horrific outcome from ANY possible circumstance.