Real Deal On Lifts

[xroadsimport]

I have not read all the posts and don't have time to. But I have been told that there is a great deal of missinformation about lift kits on the forum. I have done a significant amount of research, design, testing, and installations.

Trucks 1998 and older in Suzuki, Mitsubishi, and Daihatsu all these facts hold true.

With a simple lift you can lift the trucks 3" without problem. By simple I mean with spacers on top of the struts. We use add-a-leafs to lift the back of the trucks. We offer lifts in 2 1/4" and 3" stock for these models. They all work very well without CV Joint binding and are easy to install. I an not speak for kits sold by other companies.

You can see them here: http://www.xroadsimport.com/xri/inde...ge=lift-kits-2

The trucks can be lifted higher but it is much more involved and in most cases does not improve performance. I will leave that for another thread.

[JRinTX]

Cory,

It looks like we have been going down parallel paths on lift kit design! Your strut spacers look very similar to what I have been building. I have laser cut the flanges (a little different shape) and used the slots for camber adjustment. I notice that you also put slots at 90 degs to accomodate the early Daihatsus and all Suzukis. It's always nice to find someone with similar research results...sort of a confirmation of design! Great job.

I'm still using the longer shackles on the rear. I probably should do something a little better! But, I have been spending so much time on the front end design that I have sorta neglected the rear. (Still have to find time for my full-time job and the kids baseball games!)

I am only going 2" with the spacers because of the CV joint and drive axle clearance limitations. More than that and the entire front drive system must be moved down to maintain correct drive geometry. The 3" spacers will cause the "short side" shaft to be a too great an angle to function correctly. More than a couple of inches and the method of lifting has to be similar to what you find on lift kits for full size independent front suspension trucks.

I am a mechanical engineer that does machine design for a company that builds industrial gantry robots. So, I really enjoy mechanical design. I have disassembled the front end on a 1992 Suzuki and completely drawn the assembly in ACAD. I am in the process of doing the same with a Daihatsu. I have used these drawings along with empirical testing to do a ton of research and design, over the last several months, on lifting these trucks. If there is anything I can help you with, let me know.

Like I said, looks like a great job. I look forward to seeing what else you come up with!

[xroadsimport]

I am also a mechanical engineer so that may be why things are similar.

I do have to strongly disagree with you on the 3" lifts. They are tight when you put them in but they work great. I can't say anything about other products but the Crossroads lifts all work great. I would not go any higher than 3" with this type of lift. I have done extensive testing in the field and torture tested the 3" kits. We are designing and testing Stage 2 kits that will do what you are talking about. The Stage 2 kits will offer higher lift capacity.

[JRinTX]

Cory,

It is always interesting and fun to discuss mechanical design! And I always seem to gain info from other people's input. I'm glad you have a similar interest and education in mechanical stuff....makes for interesting conversation!

I am in no way trying to be argumentative, but my results with spacing the struts down 3", even with correct camber, have shown physical interferences in the short side drivetrain. When the suspension is completed unloaded, the short shaft will interfere with the differential housing that surrounds the CV joint assembly where the inner CV boot is located.

I have two Suzukis and one Diahatsu in my shop now that all have the above problem. I have also received reports from several other sources that confirm this same problem. Even on my ACAD drawings, if a lower the centerline of the spindle by 3" the angle at the CV joint approaches 20 degs and the shaft interfers with the housing. This is only in an unloaded condition. If the truck's weight is on the suspension, then the strut is compressed enough to relieve the binding situation. But, as you know, there will be conditions where the suspension will be unloaded under normal operation.

If you take an early 90's Suzuki (my example is a 1992) that has a 3" lift and jack it up to where the wheels are hanging, the left front wheel will not rotate freely.

Like I said earlier, please do not think I am trying to argue with you. I am just stating the facts from my research and the mechanical layout that I have done of the front suspension components. I may be missing something, and if I am please explain what I have overlooked. I may get a little carried away with projects like this....but mechanical stuff is fun!

[Acerguy]

I am also a mechanical engineer so that may be why things are similar.

That make three of us! Kinda weird. But off topic, sorry!

[minimits96]

I have just recently installed the 3" lift kit from www.xroadsimport.com It works great. I put it on my '96 Mitsubishi mini-truck and love it. His unit is a bit different than the others I have seen, but it's pretty easy to install if you have the tools and workspace. I would definitely recommend this particular lift kit. Mind you, I have never met this guy--I'm just sharing my experience so hopefully someone else can get some good from it. Like so many areas on the Internet, it's not always easy to get the exact info you need and I've had trouble finding detailed, to-the-point, straight-up info on this forum myself, so I hope this helps someone else struggling to equip their own mini-trucks.

[jliltd]

That make three of us! Kinda weird. But off topic, sorry!

Make that 4 (aerospace structural design engineer here). I installed my first lift back in September 2006 in a beautiful 1994 Suzuki Carry. It was the standard 3" tower lift and rear shakle deal. I should have known better. After install I had to re-align the truck because the camber and toe/in out were way off and the truck was "snow-plowing". After that I ruined the front transfer case and RHS CV joint due to excessive angle. I should have known better.

Here's a picture of the lifted 94 on Thanksgiving 2006 before I knew what I had done to the poor thing:



I agree 100% with JRinTX that in the case of the Suzuki, the angles between the front stub axles and CV joints are too severe with the typical 3" lift kit unless the differential is dropped (I would go 2" on the diff with the 3" strut towers). I went through 2 different front differentials until I found one to replace the original and now I find there is a shortage of them in the used parts market (gee, I wonder why?).

I have about 6 lift kits (Daihatsu, Suzuki, Mitsubishi) that I consider scrap iron. I've learned better. I only wanted to lift our vehicles to put higher-flotation tires so we could work them on turf in orchards without compacting the soils. The best alternative I've found to the lift and ATV-type tires were a set of 13" UFS wheels with Firestone Winterforce tires. Outstanding and no weird issues like you get with lift kits and ATV tires.

Notwithstanding the above, I am very intrigued by the Xroad's rear add-a-leafs; seem like a great idea if you keep the stock shackles.

[texagswin97]

Anyone installed one of these 8" suspension lifts from extreme machines in Louisiana that they are selling on ebay?? If so please share your thoughts!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/8-lif...spagenameZWD1V

[swoop]

Anyone installed one of these 8" suspension lifts from extreme machines in Louisiana that they are selling on ebay?? If so please share your thoughts!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/8-lif...spagenameZWD1V

STAY AWAY!!! I made the mistake of buying one of those kits. Absolute junk! The welds looked like the guy forgot to remove the lens cover from the welding mask. The brackets were all basically garbage. They were crooked with misaligned holes. Spring perches were uneven. Completely amature workmanship.

I am planning to fab my own lift somewhere between 6" & 8". I'm trying to fit 27" tires on my Suzuki. I'll post some pictures when it's finished.

[texagswin97]

STAY AWAY!!! I made the mistake of buying one of those kits. Absolute junk! The welds looked like the guy forgot to remove the lens cover from the welding mask. The brackets were all basically garbage. They were crooked with misaligned holes. Spring perches were uneven. Completely amature workmanship.

I am planning to fab my own lift somewhere between 6" & 8". I'm trying to fit 27" tires on my Suzuki. I'll post some pictures when it's finished.

thanks for info, i'll stay away. just curious did you get your $$$ back?

[xroadsimport]

I have to disagree! You can lift all the mid engine trucks 3" with no problem at all with our lift kits http://www.xroadsimport.com/xri/inde...ge=lift-kits-2 . We have taken the time to do things right the first time. I can't speak for all kits out there though. I have seen some and the kits I have purchased from other makers have been bad to say the least.

We have seen the 6" to 8" lift that you speak of. I would not go that way if I were you. They did not work. For those of you that would like to lift higher than 3" though we are hear for you. We will be coming out very soon with lifts from 4" to 6". These are done right. They are not the cheapest on the market but they are the best I assure you. They just plain work. When we are ready for public reliese I will post one the forum.

[akswinehart]

That make three of us! Kinda weird. But off topic, sorry!

Make that 5 ME's, glad to see ya'll designing new stuff, B/C I just don't have time, but I have been enjoying fixing modifying and selling mini's over the past year. so keep up the good work.

Great forum, glad to be a new member!!!

[IndianaJason]

I purchased and installed (and promptly removed) a 3 inch lift kit for my 1993 Suzuki. It is very similar to the xroads lift, however its not one of their lifts, so nothing against theirs..just similar for conversations sake. It is also similar to the majority of the lifts for sale on eBay right now.

I installed the lift, and noticed the severe angle of the passenger side shaft. I am not an engineer or anything close to that, but.. I could tell that there was a problem, or going to be. The angle was pretty severe in my opinion. However, when I set in the truck (putting wieght in it..) the angle changed, and didn't look as bad, and actually was somewhat acceptable in my opinion. However, that didn't change anything really, and just because I put weight on it and it was better, when I would be on uneven ground say, and the passenger side was lower than driver side, obviously the angle on the shaft would be even worse than the truck setting level.
To me, the lift seemed like it would cause wear on the cv joint for sure.
I was really hoping to have a lift, other than just for looks.
The xroads lift is different from what I have, in that the flange is seperate from the spacer, which I'm not sure why or what difference that makes?

Can you explain that?

The tires I have now dont require a lift, but may be interested in purchasing a lift that will work properly, and not create the severe angle on the cv joint.

Is there pictures available of the passenger side cv joint with the xroads 3 inch lift ?

Thanks.....

[JRinTX]

Indiana,

What you describe is a very good explanation of the problem. I work for a company as a mechanical designer and have lots of experience with mechanical components. The CV joints were never intended to operate at the angles that they are put in with the standard strut spacers that are commonly used. Not to mention the binding condition when the passenger side suspension is fully extended. If you look at a life calculation on CV joints, the working angle is one of the components in the formula. The greater the angle, the less the life expectancy.

On my 1992 Carry I have built spacers to drop the crossmember along with the strut spacers. This maintains the original geometry of the driveline. The driveshaft from the transfer case is at a little greater angle, but only a few degrees. I am not sure about the way a 1993 is built (I have looked at a 1995 and it was a little different) but you may be able to do the same thing that I have. I have been documenting what I have built with pics and drawings. I hope to publish the info on this website eventually, but I have been tied up with too many other things. (Jobs get in the way of fun! lol)

The 2-piece spacers that you mention allow you to adjust the camber on the front wheels. The top flange is slotted so the spacer can be moved in and out on the truck to correct the camber. Also, the tie rods that connect to the lower swingarms and go forward to the frame need to be lengthened and have an offset bent into them. I will try to help with info and I have a few extra parts laying around from my research and design. I will be out of town on a job until next week, but will check in when I can.

[IndianaJason]

Ok... thanks for the information. Very helpfull. Im glad I could explain it from an uneducated point of view...
Looking forward to your info and diagrams you mentioned when you get a chance.
I had a pretty good idea that the reason for the 2-piece design is what you mentioned, but wasnt for sure.
I know what you mean by work getting in the way of having fun. Thats such a crock really.... Why cant we have sponsors like sports players or something like that? I mean really I dont think thats asking too much..is it?

Thanks...