Hey guys, My 89 suzuki is a 4x4 and does great in most places, i can drive through a swamp just fine, however an unlevel slick spot gets me everytime. One tire in the front spins and one tire in the back spins and never the ones that i need. I am selling my 89 and going to buy a newer mini, but i want one that has atleast three spinning tires. What brand makes a truck like this or am i out of luck? I am sure this is a common problem. Any guidance would be great. Thanks,
All you need to do is find one with a differential lock. This will lock both back wheels together, and force the front's to work. Getting both a differential lock and an axle lock, locks all four wheels together. Suzuki is currently the only one that I'm aware of that has both. Daihatsu Hijet can have a diff lock, and a Honda Acty Attack model will have one as well. I assume that the Mazda Scrum should have the same options, as they are Suzuki rebadges. Look for the appropriate buttons on the dash on the new truck.
Thanks Wolfman, I was assuming that since since my truck has front manual lock in hubs it would actually lock. Oh well i have dolled my 89 model zuki out so it shouldn't be hard to sell. I am wanting a newer one with the lock in diff and an A/C. Thanks for your help.
All manual hubs do is, make you have to get out of the vehicle to lock the hubs to the axle, unless you leave 'em locked in all the time. A 4x4 with open axles will still send power to the wheel that spins. That's why you can end up with the opposing front and rear axles losing traction in certain situations. Locking diffs eliminate this problem. Lockers on both ends gurantee that power goes to all four wheels, regardless of traction.
Hey Wolfman (and others...)..., This discussion here is similar to this one ...-> http://www.minitrucktalk.com/showthread.php?t=580 (found under "Suzuki Carry - "Axle Lock not working ???" ..) ....of which there never was a conclusion really.... read through it and let me know what you think ?? HEY DEALERS..... whats your opinion on the subject ??? What is axle lock? What does it do ??? ...lots of conflicting reports ....??? Inquiring minds want to know......
Attention Dealers Attention Dealers - US and Japan : For those of you that sell these mini-trucks and specify if they have "axle lock" or "differential lock" .... could you please explain what each are designed to do ???? Read the above posts and the link to another thread I posted above..... Do these trucks really have the ability to "lock" the axles, or are they just being sold and advertised like that because someone said thats how they worked? Not to discount the information and opinions already given on this subject by mainly owners, but I have yet to have a "dealer" who specifies axle lock or differential lock show any "proof" that it actually works that way, other than saying "well, thats what its supposed to do".... Says who ? The owners manual? Someone else along the way? Actual documented field testing? If someone is going to advertise , promote, and sell these trucks I would think they would know what the promoted/specified features are, if any....??? I know myself and others have researched this topic and the information is so varied...... The axle lock and differential lock appear to be very important features to specify, as almost any dealers website will specify which truck has it and which doesnt. Therefore, can anyone say for sure what these features are, what they do, and why they work on some trucks and not others ? My axle lock feature does nothing. Everything is there, everything appears to "work" , but my front axle is not "locked". I bought the truck after researching this site and many dealers websites that say that axle lock "locks" the front axle ..."locks" - i.e. both tires spin no matter what, "posi-trak" , ..... I would also like to become a dealer. I cant sell one truck with "axle lock" and one without and say there is a difference if I do not know there is. Thats misleading for one thing..... Anyone read Japanese? I see there is a section on drivers side visor on my truck that goes over the "axle lock" .....? Thanks.....:frustration:
Jason, axle lock and differential lock are essentially the same thing. Axle lock typically refers to the back axle. Most trucks have a solid axle with the differentialy inside of it, where the driveshaft goes into it - hence the name "axle lock". Differential lock typically refers to the front differential. Our trucks typically have a front differential with halfshafts going to the front wheels, since they must also perform steering duties. With the exception of the Honda Acty, NONE of our trucks have any sort of differential in the transfer case. This is why you are warned against using it on hard dry surfaces. The transfer case cannot allot for the difference of speed between the front and rear wheels in a turning situation. On dirt, mud, snow, ice, etc. - the surface allows the wheels to slip as needed to overcome the inability to turn at different speeds. On dry surfaces, you will end up with what is called "axle windup", which basically means that you have stored up tension in the axles from the wheels attempting to turn at different speeds, and not being able to fully scrub off the difference. If you get bound up bad enough, something will break. Our only exception with our trucks is the Honda Acty. It is a full time 4wd system, in which the T-Case DOES have a differential in it to be able to deal with turns. An Attack model will have a differential lock (button marked in Japanese) on the dash to lock the T-case. For the rest, an axle lock will lock the rear wheels, and the differential lock will lock the front. If you get a Suzuki with both, then you can lock the drivetrain to send power equally to all four wheels, regardless of their traction. I haven't seen a Daihatsu with any axle locks as of yet. From what I've gleaned from the sellers here, Daihatsu does not offer locking axles for both front and rear. If their button says "diff lock", then they will likely be referring to the rear axle anyway. I am not aware of any standards that dictate how they label their features.
Just to throw some more stuff on the heap, I have noticed that a VERY few Sambars come with a "Diff Lock" button on the dash. I'm not sure how it functions. Also, just like the Acty, my Toyota All-Trac is also full-time AWD. It has a "Diff Lock" button on the dash with a little orange light that sits on a cartoon picture of a drive train right where you would guess a transfer case would be. I have confirmed that this button locks the transfer case because with it off, I can do e-brake turns like nobody's business...with it on, when I pull the e-brake, the fronts stop moving too. Naturally, this was all done in the interest of science on a closed course.
Ok.... So Wolfman, you are saying diff. lock = front... and axle lock = rear ... correct? My axle lock in my Suzuki is for the front. Any that I have seen is for the front. Mine does nothing.
Yes, I'm saying that that is what it will typically mean. I cannot attest to how the individual manufacturer's chose to set up their vehicles, and much of my experience has come from domestic 4x4's.
Well, the only reason I asked is because you said axle = rear , diff.=front, but a couple posts ago you said opposite so I was just clarifying. Figured one or the other was a typo ??? Either way, my axle lock feature does nothing. Mine is a Suzuki and all the other Suzukis I have looked at the axle lock activates a diaphram mechanism on the front end. Thanks,
Yeah, I see where I caused confusion. My bad. Still the two different lables, essentially describe the same function.
I have a 1993 honda- Front wheels will not pull _ Are all hondas full time 4 wheel drives? jtapscott ALABAMA
I think they are supposed to be. I'd look for a driveshaft to the front diff on your truck. Hondas can have the front driveshaft disengaged manually by moving some sort of collar. There is a thread on the subject in the Acty subforum.
I have a 92' Suzuki with axle & diff lock. I jacked up all 4 corners of the truck and confirmed: 4x4 engaged, axle lock light is always on. Shifting back into 2x4, axle lock light is still on but now I can turn it off via the switch. 4x4 engaged and trans in 1st: All 4 wheels spin. Putting my foot against either of the front tires easily stops that one while the other one spins. I am not able to turn off the axle lock when 4x4 is engaged yet it doesn't seem to make any difference. If I put my foot against one of the rear tires, it stops easily and the other one spins. When I engage the diff lock, both rear tires spin and neither can be stopped individually. I am thinking that maybe the axle lock is not engaging? I tried pulling the vacuum line off of the mechanism on the front differential. while in 2x4 I can turn the axle lock on & off. When on, vacuum, when off, no vacuum. This certainly makes me lean toward the axle lock is not actually engaging. I haven't taken it apart any further yet & am hoping that maybe someone can add to this.
Rancher, That is exactly what my truck does...exactly what you have described is identical to what my truck does, and doesnt do....as well as others.. From all of the discussion, I'm leaning to the idea that "axle lock" is nothing more than "locking the hubs" , not locking the front end so both tires will pull. I'm thinking there is nothing wrong with all of our "axle lock's" , its just that they dont do what we thought, or were told. Anyone else have any input ???
just locking the hubs doesn't make any sense to me. Whenever the transfer case is in 4x4, the axle lock light comes on & I can't turn it off. I can turn it off when in 2x4. We will try some more experiments & post the results if there is anything of cosequence.
What I'm saying is, the "axle lock" is the same as locking the hubs on a standard 4x4.... It is activated by pushing the button itself, and activated also by manually putting the truck into 4wd. It appears that putting the truck into 4wd, there is a switch that overrides the button, obviously or it wouldnt come on when shifted into 4wd. Your truck does exactly the same as mine and others Rancher......Thats what it seems to me. After all the discussion and input, I find it hard to believe that all of our trucks have a faulty "axle lock".... It seems to me the axle lock does nothing more than lock the axles, not necesarily locking them as in posi-trak, or making it so both tires will pull, as we have been told.....?? I'm guessing that if you unhooked the axle lock mechanism, and put the truck into 4wd via the transfer case, that neither front tire would pull...because the front axle is not "locked in"......Same as on a standard 4x4 truck, if you dont lock the hubs, then the tires will not pull. If not, then mine, yours, and many others axle lock just plain doesnt work....and that seems hard for me to believe.....??
I agree that if the only thing it does is engage the front, just like locking the hubs, then what could possibly be the point of having a button to activate it? I think that we will pull the mechanism off off the front diff and investigate. It does not appear that anyone seems to know for sure. If they do they certainly aren't "sharing".
We just used a strap from the rear of the truck to a tree to keep it from moving forward. Exact same results as when it is on jackstands. We were just trying to confirm that having weight or a load on the drivetrain might make any difference.
Rancher I hope you do take one apart and find out for sure. This is the biggest question I have about these trucks that I am selling. I don't want to tell my customers something that is not correct. dwest
Hey I'm very glad to hear some actual results from actual "field testing"...... Good deal. Thanks for sharing....... Read what steve posted today in the other thread "Attention Dealers" under "General Truck Info"..... Seems like we are progressing towards solving this great axle lock mystery...??.....
The Answer Here appears to be the answer...... http://www.minitrucktalk.com/showthread.php?t=769&page=2 Axle lock does not make both front tires pull....it is designed only as an automatic way of locking the front in....same as locking the hubs on a standard /domestic 4x4, it does not make the front posi-track .
