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Engine & Solid Axle Swap Build

Discussion in 'General Truck Info' started by greg0187, Nov 3, 2008.

  1. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    This isn't exactly moderator talk but I don't want to release my plans for my truck to the public just yet. But maybe some of you guys would like to hear what I am planning, and possibly give me some feedback. Basically I'm going to strip the drivetrain (engine, trans, suspension) out of the truck. I found that pre 83 model Jeep CJ5 front dana 30 axles have a 53" wheel mounting surface (WMS) to WMS. Same as mine. So I'm going to get two of them. The differential chunk on the 30's have a passenger side drop (USA), drivers side Japan. So for the rear I'm going to swap the axle tubes and knuckles so the chunk will be on the same side as the front and mount them via 4-link. In other words the driveshafts will be inline with each other staggerd to the passenger side. Then I plan on mounting a FWD transaxle eng transversly, where the CV axles will become driveshafts. I'm not exactly sure what type of engine yet but I'm thinking about a Honda 4 cyl b/c they are the only ones with the accesory drive on the left hand side where I can tuck part of the transmission under the cab with the accesories facing the rear of the truck. Then...somehow lock the diff in the transaxle (Welding?/Spool?) One cool thing is that since I'm going to be using front axles... 4 wheel steering will definatly come into play. Its not going to come together quickly but I'm determined that it will work.

    -Greg
     
  2. Timetripper

    Timetripper Moderator

    Greg, That sounds great. 4 wheel steer = holy crap turning radius!
    FYI They make all kinds of LSD for FWD Honda's ala Torsen, etc
    Props for the plan
     
  3. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    i don't see why it wouldn't work... be careful with honda some of the engines rotate the wrong direction. i don't remember what year group exactly, but they're out there and will screw up a lot of well laid out plans. the four wheel steering sounds like a lot of fun... seems like it would be easy enough to do the swap since they are both straight axles you just need some leaf springs up front and custom drive shafts.
     
  4. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    the more i think about it, where are you going to put the motor? you would have to cut some of the bed out since it's an upright motor but then wouldn't it be so far back you would have an extreme drive shaft angle to the rear and a very very short driveshaft? or will you have enough of a lift kit to still keep it under the truck? not trying to shoot down your idea at all, it just popped into my head.

    what i had thought about for an engine swap was putting a 4cyl toyota 22re out of a 4x4 facing backwards in the bed, running the rear output to the front and the front output to the rear. flipping the axles over so it would drive the right direction.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2008
  5. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    If you look at the orientation of most FWD's the accessory drive side of the engine is the long shaft side and the other is the short shaft. I was thinking that the short shaft side would be the front driveshaft. Most pre 06 Hondas, if your looking under the hood, have the accessory drive on the right. This way I can tuck some of the tranny under the cab. I'm going to put a bump in the bed floor to make room for the engine. I measured the 2.2L engine in my Saturn and the engine/tranny is shorter than stock engine/tranny by ~6". But it is 6-7" taller.

    -Greg
     
  6. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    I'll have to think about this one for a while.

    -Greg
     
  7. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

  8. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    i don't see why they wouldn't be... those look like they'll stand up to the abuse you're gonna give them :D

    a lot of stuff like that i used to make out of chr mo tubing and threading the inside... but for the price of those i'd do it.
     
  9. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Thats what I was thinking. I was gonna make my own but they have em in different lengths, and the price is good. My chasis guy was trying to talk me into them, he said if there strong enough for that (pointing to a pro-stock race car) they're strong enough for your little truck. They have aluminum as well for about the same price, but I figured the steel ones will probably hold up better to being hit by debris. Thanks for the input.

    -Greg
     
  10. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    greg,

    had a thought pop in my head late last night and it kept me awake for a bit. you plan on putting a fwd engine in your truck and running a driveshaft to each diff, right? then how will you control where the power goes? in essence you will have 3 differentials and no control. without a locker on each diff it will be a random one wheel drive, won't it? since there is a diff in the fwd trans it will put power to the axle of least resistance and you won't have control like you do now, rear or 4wd? and what are you going to do about high and low range?
     
  11. Timetripper

    Timetripper Moderator

    You can get LSD's for most of the FWD transaxle's which would take care of the center diff.
    That would make it a AWD ala Jeep Quadra Trac
    A couple of Allan's Posi kits front & back and that would take care of that problem
    The only thing would be as you noted Milt - no Low range
     
  12. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Yea, without lockers or an LSD it will be AWD (aka..1 wheel drive). I think I'm going to lincoln lock the transaxle diff or at least maybe an LSD but I prefer to weld it up or even better if I can find a spool. If I need 2WD I figure I can unlock the hubs in the front or rear as needed. As far as I can tell I won't need a H/L gear as the center diff provides the reduction already. I'm trying to get 3.54:1 gears in the axles so I believe the top speed will only be around 55-60MPH depending on the tire size I go with. So it should be geared plenty low. Does that sound right?

    -Greg
     
  13. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    yeah that seems like it will work, i was thinking along the same lines, Lincoln locker or spool and finding a diff you can actuate like the stock unit up front.
     
  14. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Damn, You can buy everything for the early 80's Dana 30's except for the complete assembly itself. One would think that it would be easy to find a pair of these antique axles :rolleyes: LOL. I think these axles will be perfect for what I need given their size. I'm getting there though.

    Milt, do you think you can have me some link-bar mounting tabs made on that waterjet you have access to? I can try to make my own but It sure would be nice to have someone else fab some for me.

    -Greg
     
  15. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    i have four 6'x12' water jets, and it's so slow right now that two are sitting idle... i think i can squeeze it in... lol

    give me a good drawing with dimensions and let me know what material you need it made out of and i can do it after work one day.
     
  16. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Cool. I just found a 2000 honda civic that was tapped in the rear on craigs list for a donor. She wants $1000 for it 100K miles. 1.6L VTEC. The only problem is its automatic, I was hoping for a 5-speed but the auto might not be too bad. Its hard to find a complete car, which is what I want. What do you guys think.
     
  17. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    One thing I thought of with the auto trans is that I won't have to dick around with the hydraulic clutch.
     
  18. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    the auto will be cool if you can change the lock up and/or the stall of the TC, that might make life a little easier without the HI/LO gear box
     
  19. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

  20. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Woo Hoo. Got me some axles coming from Colorado!
     
  21. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    looks like most of the hard work/research and development has been done for you... have you thought about building a chassis and just putting the truck body on it? that might actually be the best route
     
  22. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Some people Urrrg! I talked to this lady and made arrangements to purchase the car today (On her request, she wouldn't be around till today) and come to find out she sold it to someone else yesterday. Pisses me off.

    -Greg
     
  23. Timetripper

    Timetripper Moderator

    I had the same thing in reverse years ago.
    Guy comes to look at my Camry, commits to buy said he'd come back tommorrow then was a no show, no call, no answering phone = no class.

    Same as your situation - no class
     
  24. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Yeah, the crappy part is that I offered to drop off a security deposit and I got "Oh, thats not necessary, it'll be here Saturday for you". Oh well...back to looking.
     
  25. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Milt, Thats basically what I plan on doing. It won't be a full chasis but close.

    -Greg
     
  26. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    I figured I'd move this to the public forum since Its becoming more realistic. Of course its not going to happen overnite, god I wish, but I'm getting there. Hello everyone!
     
  27. barneyrb

    barneyrb Member

    Ok, I've designed this same set-up several times in my head. Went so far as to buy 2 complete Samurai axles, because on the rear or front you can flip the axle, reposition the breather, and bolt the center "pumpkins" either way. I have even purchased a Geo Metro (conv) with a good 3 cyl (alum) motor and automatic to keep weight down. The one factor that kept me from building all this the top speed would be limited to ~30mph. When you do the math there is so much gear reduction it would pull a house down, just take forever to move it. The truck would be like it was stuck in low range all the time. If you would be interested I will sell the whole shooting match for what I have in it.
     
  28. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks, but I've already got some Dana 30 axles on the way. I'm aware of the limitation of speed so thats why I tried to get the highest gear ratio I could find (3.07:1). I figure that a little Honda Civic has a top speed of ~130Mph. So I figure 130Mph/3.07 is equal to 42.3 Mph, then add to that the increase in tire size to 30", which should give me 15-20 more Mph and my top speed should be approx 55-60Mph. I only use my truck for off road so I'm satisfied with this figure.

    -Greg
     
  29. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    one more thing i forgot to mention is that once you weld up that diff. aka lincoln locker, you should send it out to have it dynamically balanced, it will save a lot of heartache later on
     
  30. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Good thought. Who might do something like this? Driveshaft shop? Ideally, there was some talk in one of the threads I posted about a company that makes a rhino RTV (not Yamaha) that started this whole transaxle swap deal. Somehow they created a shaft that goes all the way through the trans and then used standard yokes on each end. Its a good Idea in that I wouldn't have to tear the transmission apart to weld up the diff, but I'm not sure where I could have one made or what it would cost.

    -Greg
     

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