In my opinion its better. Here's why. It helps protect the CV from the suspension drooping further than it was designed. This is the problem with currert lift kits where folks are complaining of CV axle damage. However I only saw about 1" of lift on mine with the same springs that Satex used. If your truck is older it will possibly lift it more b/c the older springs may be failing and/or wearing over the years. Another option is to try to use a 12" spring with a rating about the same or a little less than stock (You could try a 12" 200lb spring) to achieve more lift and firmer susp at the same time. One drawback to this is that the suspension will tend to top out more often. -Greg
mmmmm ... more evil thoughts go through my mind, more on that in a minute. I don't think this will be quite equal to a lift kit because the nominal height that the vehicle is sitting at won't be in the same position of the shock travel. For example, relative to stock ride height, your shocks and suspension geometry might allow 3" in compression and 2" in rebound from that height. If you put in springs that end up sitting 2" higher, you'll have 5" in compression available and no rebound. A proper lift kit ought to raise up the entire range of movement so that you still have the 3" compression and 2" rebound relative to the new "raised" height. What you really should be doing, is rather than basing it on the "free" length of the spring, is to calculate or measure the length of the spring with the weight of the vehicle on it, and then using the new spring rate and the (hopefully known, or at least estimated) weight on each wheel, figure out what the free length is of the spring that you want. for example if the original spring was 210 lb/in and it measured 7.5 inches long at normal ride height, and you have (say) 900 lbs on the front axle at normal ride height (i.e. 450 on each wheel), and you want to keep that same ride height but now with 275 lb/in springs, you can calculate the free length of the spring that will achieve that: 7.5 inches + (450/275) = 9.1 inches. Doesn't mean you can get exactly that length in the catalog! but often you can buy (or make) spring spacers that you put on top of a shorter spring in order to achieve this. My particular plan is for a lowered truck with less body roll, and higher-rate but shorter springs fit perfectly into that plan
Thats right. Except you have to remember that if you change the free length you change the number of active coils which in turn is a divisor of the calculated spring rate. In other words you will change its rate. There's a formula for it, I can't remember off hand but it would just need to be added into yours. -Greg
The idea of replacing the springs was to incease available compression, in which there was little to none, not to gain lift. Lift was just a by product. By adding these higher rate springs on my truck, it put the compression/rebound ratio in the area it should have been to begin with. -Greg
Your point about not exceeding the allowable travel of the CV joints is well taken. In that respect, it might be better to NOT have the extra rebound travel available ... although technically, the most correct solution is to reposition the whole differential assembly lower to correspond with the repositioned suspension travel. Regarding the number of active coils from changing the length of the spring, I would think that if the catalog quotes a spring length and spring rate, that they have already accounted for this, no?
Another way to look at it. If the spring is 7.5 inches long at normal ride height and the free length of the spring is 10 inches then the spring is compressed 2.5 inches. At 210lbs per inch, each wheel is supporting 525lbs (210*2.5=525). Then you replace the spring with a 275lbs/in rate...It will only compress 1.9 inches (525/275=1.9). Ride height increases 0.6 inches (2.5-1.9=0.6). Subtract that from the free height of the original spring and you would need an 9.4 inch spring. Now here comes the part that you were talking about that I missed. You go to the catalog and order an 8" spring and make a spacer to go with it 1.4 inches tall (9.4-8=1.4). I though you were talking about cutting the spring to that length. -Greg
How difficult was it to remove the springs from the struts?? I was looking at the struts on my Suzuki and I can't see how they come apart. Is this one of those jobs that you can't tell how it comes apart until it's off the truck??
Getting them apart is the easy part. Getting them back together can be frustrating. If you don't have a strut spring compressor then you need to use the weight of the truck to compress/decompress the springs. They basically come apart by removing the nut on top of the strut, located under the seat, Its directly center of the strut and there may be a plastic cap protecting it from debris. Basically...If you remove the nut and jack the truck up the strut and springs will come apart. If your not comfortable doing this then the safe way is to take the entire strut assemblys out intact and carry them and the new springs to a shop to have them swapped out.
Thanks....easy enough. I thought the struts were like shocks and were gas charged and didn't think they came apart like that. Time to order springs!!
Struts and shocks are the same in the way they absorb shock. The spring is not part of the strut itself, its one of the components of a strut assembly. If you went to the autoparts store and bought a replacement strut you would be basically given a shock. -Greg
So the top cup that holds the spring is separate from the strut....Can't wait to to to start taking apart and putting back together...
I bought a set of springs (10"x250 lbs.) of off e-Bay for $82 and they worked out great. The drivers side was a bit of a bear to get back in and took about 45 minutes to do but the passenger side I had off and back on in 15 minutes after I knew what to do. I took it for a spin right before I replaced the springs so I could have a recent ride to compare the the springs to and the difference was huge. My parents have 40 acres of timber with trails with varying conditions, wash outs before felt like the the whole truck was falling in and wouldn't be able to get out, driving fast wasn't the most comfortable hitting dips and potholes, and just overall mushy. New springs made a new truck...I could barely feel the washouts, the truck seemed to glide now going fast, and the ride is great. It did raise the truck about 1"-1.5" so now I have about 5" of lift (the front diff is dropped.) This is a great upgrade so thanks for all of the info greg!!
Danish I am interested in the springs - hate that mushy ride. I am always worried that the front-end will nose dive and crunch the radiator. Who is the ebay reatailer? Thanks, Bill
2.5" lift via new front springs for 1992 HiJet **on sale** I decided I wanted to go with a 2.5 " lift so I went with the 12" 200lb coils that Greg indicated as a possible option. I went to the site and low and behold they are on sale for around $23.00 each plus shipping. The regular price is 66.00 each. The sales person (Don) was very helpful and told me that I would be very happy with this spring as he has sold many to mini truck customers. They are powered coated silver i think. They have some that are chrome that are on sale but they might be a dollar or two higher. Below is the link. The said that I should recieve them in two days. Below is the link for the ones that I purchased. By the way, i dont work for this company nor do i know anyone that does. Just passing along a sale for those that might be interested. CJ http://www.afabcorp.com/AFCO_Dynate...Product_Code=22200SR&Category_Code=cs_springs
I decided I wanted to go with a 2.5 " lift so I went with the 12" 200lb coils that Greg indicated as a possible option. I went to the site and low and behold they are on sale for around $23.00 each plus shipping. The regular price is 66.00 each. The sales person (Don) was very helpful and told me that I would be very happy with this spring as he has sold many to mini truck customers. They are powered coated silver i think. They have some that are chrome that are on sale but they might be a dollar or two higher. Below is the link. The said that I should recieve them in two days. Below is the link for the ones that I purchased. I am interested in getting new springs for my '93 Daihatsu truck as it seems to bottom out quite easily. The truck has a 2.5" lift. From what I've read on this thread I assume the existing springs are 10", but I have not measured them. My question: If the 12" springs create a 2.5" lift, will the existing strut shock work? It seems to me the strut shock will have to extend an additional 2.5" with the 12" spring. I'm interested to know your results. It's hard to pass up $23 springs if they work.
12" spring I got the springs in and they look nice. The jury is out on how hard it is going to be to install them. You may want to wait till i put them on and test them before purchasing. I started to buy the 12" 160# pound springs but went with what Greg suggested. I want to utilize the full movement of the shock for driving offroad. I want the suspension working. When I am not in the truck, I want it extended to the max design length. When me, my passenger, (plus the load in the bed) get in the truck, I want it to compress a couple of inches or at most, about halfway down. Hopefully this spring will help me obtain these goals. Another side goal is to put oversize tires on it but I have yet to find a dealer to respond to my email request on what is the widest tire and wheel combiination I can put on the front and rear without extending past the external body. I loved the look of my john deere gator when that wide wheel was tucked underneath the vehicle. It helps also having a low footprint pressure in the wet areas that i ride. cj
I've been following this thread with interest as I have a '91 Subaru Sambar with stock rims and nearly stock tires (155R80s versus 145R80s). The truck seems a bit low in front. This concerns me when I have to hit a bump any bigger than a curb or when I'm hauling loads. It always seems like my front bumper is going to hit the dirt/concrete. But my truck only falls about 3/4" when I sit my 195 pounds over the driver's-side wheel. Maybe I have nothing to worry about, no? I'm looking to haul some big loads over the winter. Round bales of hay or straw being the worst. Mind you, I won't be moving very fast with a bale of hay in the back. So maybe I can sleep soundly.
FWIW i think if you add the taller springs you will have to remove any lift kit (strut spacer) that is installed or you will have to drop the front pumpkin to accomodate a better CV angle.
Just reread the post where Greg figured out the stiffness of his truck's springs. I see that I've got some more work to figure out whether new springs are necessary. My truck definitely bottoms out more than I'd like. But maybe that's a topic for a new thread.
Milt, Yes, I agree. If the 12" springs add 2.5", I will have to remove the strut spacer. Will the strut shock handle the extra 2.5" travel? Will the 200 lb. spring rate be enough to eliminate the bottoming out experienced with the original springs or is a higher spring rate required? I await Grubbat's results with eager anticipation. Sorry, I didn't use the quote thing correctly in my earlier post.
Look at it this way. The 200# 12" spring will provide ~1.75" of lift, no gain in carrying capacity. The 250# 10" spring will provide ~1.5" of lift, with gain in carrying capacity. Or, in other words. The 12" spring will require less load to compress the suspension than the 10" one. The 12" spring will probably allow for more articulation, Although, the 12" spring may be prone to binding, resulting in a higher rate during high compression. Any way you go, probably going to get a very similar result. Can't wait to hear how the 12" spring works, its going to be a PITA to install them without proper tools. -Greg
greg0187, Your reasoning is why I think I'd be better off getting a 250 lb. or 275 lb. 10" spring instead of the 200 lb. 12" spring. However, the price for the 12" spring sure is enticing.
A couple of things. 1. Not that there's anything wrong with the 12" springs. But, I would like to point out that several members have reported success with the 250# springs. No one knows what the outcome will be until someone trys them out and reports the result. My main concern would be binding under high compression. The struts were designed to used 10" springs. I'm always about saving money but the best price isn't necessarily the best way. 2. If you watch the video I posted when I broke my axle. Watch the suspension. It performs quite well with the 275# spring. 3. Don't wait for me but, for anyone who is interested, I will be selling my entire strut assemblies, I believe they may fit pre 99 models, with the new springs installed sometime in the near future as soon as I get my new axles. -Greg
12" Coil Update Brother, you got that right (PITA). I got home yesterday from work with just a bit of light left and took the right side stock spring off with little difficulity. I was hoping that I could figure out a way to install the new spring just with weight of the vehicle compressing it but to no avail. You must use a spring compressor to do it safely and right.I am not finished yet but it looks like it lifted the vehicle 2.1" over stock just sitting there. (I measured from the bottom of the wheel well directly over the tire to the floor both before and after.) There is a concern that the spring may bind when fully compressed so I will try to check that to see if it occurs. The new spring does have more coils so it could bind before the shock is fully compressed. That would not be a good thing. A backup plan would be to cut some off these springs if binding is an issue. If I cut off 2", then I haven't gained anything as the rate is the same as stock except it may not have any settling it it and it does appear to be a LOT better quality). I dont want to jump to conclusions yet but Greg has a point in that these vehicles were designed for 10" coils with limited articulation. My goal to get full articulation may not be realized so I would recommend against spending your hard earned money yet. I may end up with 11" coils doing the articulation job that I am looking for. I will keep you posted. I hope to have some resolution this weekend. cj
This is exactly what I'm thinking about doing. Does anybody have any idea what the stock springs were initially? 10" and 2-5/8", obviously. But 200#? Is there any way of getting a good guess at this just from look and feel? At first blush, I'd think that the spring should be close to fully extended when the truck is empty, but that would mean the truck would "top out" rather than bottom out. (If it's not obvious, these issues are very new to me.)
Note: If you cut coils from the spring it will increase its rate. Rural, In one of the earlier posts I tested my spring with my own weight and a tape measure. -Greg
